Things you learn from DM

[s7595]

indigo blue
nice few posts , haveing read some of your previous post I thought you to be a source of info . I was sadly mistaken ,you have decided to have fun with sb members with this rubbish. in future I will look at your comments and pass them off as awaste of time good day

 

[DiverDunk]

I have exactly what you are describing. Mine was made by Scubapro and I've had it for several years - works great. I'm not sure if they make them anymore, though.

Steve

Has anyone thought of making a snorkel clip like some of the cell phone belt clips? I'm referring to the kind that are 2 parts. The male end or pin would clip to the mask and the female end would clip to the snorkel itself or vice versa. The male portion has a small button that you depress to release the clip This would allow for a quick attachment/release of the snorkel and stowing. A clip like this would allow the snorkel to swivel somewhat so it might not end up being such a problem. A small counterweight on the bottom of the snorkel would keep the snorkels positive bouyancy in check.

 

[IndigoBlue]

Seems that all the long hose craze is from the DIR camp. I was undrer the impression that you guys like everyone to rig up the same, so why don't you at least do that for your students. Not all divers are doing penatration dives so single file diving is not always a concern...especially in an OW class. I'm by no means dogging the long hose concept, I just think if you (your certifing agency..ie. PADI, NAUI) insists your students where snorkles then you should also.

I don't really see what this thread has to do with "what you learn as a divemaster" but that's beside the point now.

Again, not dogging the long hose, just don't see a need for it myself (in an open water training dive).

Excellent observations. The best so far.

A diver entering a D/M class is going to learn the following:

1. NAUI's or YMCA's or PADI's or SSI's etc standard recreational open water configuration, which will virtually always include a snorkel. Somewhere. Either on your mask strap, in your cargo pocket, etc.

2. If you are diving cold water, you will be encouraged to invest in a drysuit, and lose your thick wetsuit.

3. If you are helping with students, your instructor will probably suggest you get a decent B/C like a Zeagle or ScubaPro, and lose the Oceanic.

4. With a decent B/C, you will be able to split up your weight between your weight belt and your integrated B/C. They you will not need to wear more than 10 lbs on your belt.

5. You will carry some safety gear, like a signalling sausage, in one of your B/C pockets, at least on boat dives.

The sooner you get AOW, Rescue, Nitrox, and D/M the better a diver you will be.

Then you will be able to decide more intelligently whether you have any use for a backplate and wing and a 60 inch hose. Chances are very good that you do not. Waste of money, all 3.

 

[David Evans]

Then you will be able to decide more intelligently whether you have any use for a backplate and wing and a 60 inch hose. Chances are very good that you do not. Waste of money, all 3.

You still have as yet to qualify these statements with any sort of objective reasoning. I for one would appreciate that if you are going to make a statement deriding a bit of gear that you would at the same time qualify your reasoning objectively.

I personally dive this gear, and moreover, I train my new OW students using it.

The backplate and wing assist the diver in attaining a better prone diving position, in part by placing weight over the lungs and reducing the weight complement that would otherwise be carried on the waist (which in turn, along with that nice floaty padding of a conventional BC, encourages an inefficient head-up, feet down trim position).

The long hose allows divers to remain prone during air sharing, as opposed to needing to go vertical (which will certainly affect buoyancy in the process). It also gives the divers room to maneuver while sharing air. Furthermore, it teaches the diver the importance of sharing air from a known, working source - the one in your mouth.

These are a few basic reasons I teach (and use) the gear configuration I do. If you find fault with them, I would encourage you provide some objective reasons as to why you would do otherwise.

Explain for us the benefits of a conventional BC over a BP/W. Explain for us the benefits of using a short hose vs. a long one.

Thanks.

-david

 

[dweeb]

Not all DM courses address equipment configuration much. I doubt that many recreational instructors are discouraging divers from using a heavy wet suit for deep diving althoug some certainly do and for good reason.

But...5 ft hoses work ok for some and snorkels (more correctly refered to as head bangers or CO2 collectors) aren't any good underwater. LOL

Mike, I thought you were smarter than this. There's no better evidence that moderated forums cause brain damage than the fact that so many people here can't spot such a gratuitous troll, and then ignore it.

 

[IndigoBlue]

You still have as yet to qualify these statements with any sort of objective reasoning. I for one would appreciate that if you are going to make a statement deriding a bit of gear that you would at the same time qualify your reasoning objectively.

I personally dive this gear, and moreover, I train my new OW students using it.

The backplate and wing assist the diver in attaining a better prone diving position, in part by placing weight over the lungs and reducing the weight complement that would otherwise be carried on the waist (which in turn, along with that nice floaty padding of a conventional BC, encourages an inefficient head-up, feet down trim position).

The long hose allows divers to remain prone during air sharing, as opposed to needing to go vertical (which will certainly affect buoyancy in the process). It also gives the divers room to maneuver while sharing air. Furthermore, it teaches the diver the importance of sharing air from a known, working source - the one in your mouth.

These are a few basic reasons I teach (and use) the gear configuration I do. If you find fault with them, I would encourage you provide some objective reasons as to why you would do otherwise.

Explain for us the benefits of a conventional BC over a BP/W. Explain for us the benefits of using a short hose vs. a long one.

Thanks.

-david

I have elected to utilize the ignor function in the case of your posts, since the MODs allow you to be argumentative (in violation of their own TOS) while you ignor the replies I have given your claims.

I think your NACD credentials are laudatory.

It seems unfortunate to me, however, that you are using your NAUI credentials to promote non-NAUI omissions of gear and GUE configurations. To each his/her own. Farewell.

 

[simbrooks]

I have elected to utilize the ignor function in the case of your posts, since the MODs allow you to be argumentative (in violation of their own TOS) while you ignor the replies I have given your claims.

Pot, kettle, black. So which agency did you take your DM with IB, why were they more concerned with gear types than with skills, leadership and other such parts of the DM's job - were they honing you into a salesman for their gear in the store?

I would say that from reading the scope of some DM courses that i feel there would be some valuable skills to be learnt, i feel that teaching about gear selection (in terms of jacket rather than BP/W and hose length) would be a waste of time. Back to your regularly scheduled trolling......

Actually i did learn something from IB's last post, the ignore function, i had seen it before, but have no put it in place - sweet

 

[Big-t-2538]

The sooner you get AOW, Rescue, Nitrox, and D/M the better a diver you will be.

Then you will be able to decide more intelligently whether you have any use for a backplate and wing and a 60 inch hose. Chances are very good that you do not. Waste of money, all 3.

O.K...I have no issue with point 1, or 2 (that's more of a diver's choice anyhow).

but seriously, why is a BP/W a waste of money? Can you please explain to me why? For the most part, I find that a BP/W configuration is more adaptable for a range of sizes than a zeagle or SP...IMO it's more configurable (where you want D-rings, pockets, etc.) than a BC...and in most cases I can find...it costs less than a zeagle or SP.

My personal stance on "getting to be a better diver" lies completely in the amount of experience you have in differing conditions. It has much less to do with what cert card you hold. You cannot substitute experience in diving with any class.

 

[IndigoBlue]

O.K...I have no issue with point 1, or 2 (that's more of a diver's choice anyhow).

but seriously, why is a BP/W a waste of money? Can you please explain to me why? For the most part, I find that a BP/W configuration is more adaptable for a range of sizes than a zeagle or SP...IMO it's more configurable (where you want D-rings, pockets, etc.) than a BC...and in most cases I can find...it costs less than a zeagle or SP.

My personal stance on "getting to be a better diver" lies completely in the amount of experience you have in differing conditions. It has much less to do with what cert card you hold. You cannot substitute experience in diving with any class.

Experience can be good or bad, T.

Doing things over and over incorrectly (such as using the power inflator as an escalator for a too rapid ascent) becomes a bad habit.

Bad habits multiply the odds of a fatality, such as an AGE.

That is why I favor the idea of a new diver getting several courses behind them, then getting into a D/M program as soon as possible, so that an instructor (any instructor) is working with the student.

Even an instructor who puts students into extraneous gear, such as a backplate and harness without the need for any cave applications is better than no instructor at all, in my opinion.

My personal view is that the backplate and harness configuration is not the best gear for everyone, and extraneous for anyone not going into a cave. Non-cave divers are better off with B/C pockets, containing safety gear such as a signalling sausage and a spare mask, and an integrated weight system, if they are diving with more than 10 lbs of weights. Those are things you do not get with a harness and backplate.

 

[Big-t-2538]

Experience can be good or bad, T.

as can instructors....I'm finding more and more of them that I would not consider sending my friends to. See post 36 for my views on instructors.

Doing things over and over incorrectly (such as using the power inflator as an escalator for a too rapid ascent) becomes a bad habit.

agreed

That is why I favor the idea of a new diver getting several courses behind them, then getting into a D/M program as soon as possible, so that an instructor (any instructor) is working with the student.

I disagree. Rushing someone into a DM course just to make them a "better diver" is not the way to go. Diving with a mentor or buddy is and critiquing each dive is. Unfortunately, there are loads of divers (including instructors) that don;t know the first thing about neutral bouyancy and they think it's just fine to crash into the bottom of the quarry/ocean/divesite b/c it's all they know and they've never been taught or seen anything otherwise.

My personal view is that the backplate and harness configuration is not the best gear for everyone

agreed

extraneous for anyone not going into a cave.

I totally disagree. Wether or not one is interested in cave diving or anything beyond recreational OW diving for that matter should have all options presented to them. IMO a BP/W is a more stable set-up, it's more compact for travel, and it's more streamlined than the BC I still own but no longer dive with. FWIW, I dive with 18 pounds all together with my BP/W and only 7 of it is on a belt. I dive cold and wet. I've found the BP/W to be the best option for my OW diving b/c there isn't a bunch of other crap that I don't want (straps, handles, clips, etc.) in the way. I can easily add a pocket to the harness if I so desire for extra stuff (notes/mask/shears/etc.), and I can stuff a saftey signalling bag between my plate and back without any discomfort.

At any rate, all options should be presented to new OW divers and they should be informed as to what their options are.