Things you learn from DM

[Diver0001]

Experience can be good or bad, T.

LOL. I'm putting this one in my sig.

...snip...

Non-cave divers are better off with B/C pockets, containing safety gear such as a signalling sausage and a spare mask, and an integrated weight system, if they are diving with more than 10 lbs of weights. Those are things you do not get with a harness and backplate.

Indigo. What kind of gear do you usually use?

Some of things I've heard you saying I can only understand from the point of view of someone who has exclusively warm blue-water experience. I'm guessing you've done very little diving in cold or turbid water or with a drysuit and heavy undergarment or with doubles, steel tanks etc etc. Believe me, once you start throwing some of these elements into the game then the game starts to change.

It's not a criticism, just an observation and curiosity.

The funny thing about it is that you seem to dislike DIR for the sake of DIR but your insistence on your own version of a "one size fits all" solution sounds very DIR-like in its preaching. I would suggest that you can't take DIR out of context but you can't take blue-water configs out of context and expect them to work either.

R..

 

[perpet1]

I have to respect Massachusetts. Some of the brightest people on this earth live there. And there are more world class universities in Boston than in most other entire states.

Out of reverence for your home, Silvia, I will be glad to help you try to understand.

Do not scuba dive in a thick wetsuit. Eight little words. That should be crystal clear to anyone in Massachusetts.

And if you need more than 10 lbs of lead on you, do not put it onto your weight belt.

Is that better?

So lets say somone needs 42lbs because they are a big guy that likes to dive in the winter up here in NH and that means a drysuit with a lot of undergarments. If you take a 1/4inch steel backplate that is 13lbs now tack on a weighted STA 6lbs and another 6lbs of trim weight. this person is carying 25lbs on their back in lead and they are still 7lbs short of your magic 10lb limit on your waist.

I only make this point because I do not think everyone would be comfortable putting 25lbs on their rig to limit the weight on the belt to 10lbs.

Since I am in NH you need no reverence to my home!

======================================

Now about your initial premis that DM is required for somone to gain this knowledge. That is not only laugh out loud funny it is very misleading. There are good certifications out there that provide the diving skills equilivent to that of a DM. An example would be the NAUI Master Scuba Diver which has the same diving knowledge requirements without the leadership requirements.

Along with that, why would anyone not interested in actually working as a DM ever want to have to pay insurance and membership dues required? Not to mention the professional liability that is associated with being a DM. To many people take the concept of becoming a DM or instructor to lightly as "just another certification". It should not be considered that way because of the additional liability and responsibility associated with it.

 

[DBailey]

1. I am still trying to figure out why I am not supposed to scuba dive in a thick wetsuit. Here in the Chicago area, it has served me well (in my limited diving experience) from 40F water to 68F water. Heck, my last dive varied from 72F to 46F during the course of the dive.

If I am comfortable in the thick wetsuit for the duration of my dive, why shouldn't I use it?

2. As far as weights are concerned, shouldn't you use what you need and place them where you need them? If that is more than 10lbs on the belt, as long as it servesit purpose, then what does it matter?

3. Is the 7' hose needed for recreational diving? Someone posted that it helps you remain prone while sharing air. I understand that in a cave or wreck, but shouldn't you abort the dive and start ascending if you are sharing air on a recreational dive? Do you ascend prone?

 

[simbrooks]

3. Is the 7' hose needed for recreational diving? Someone posted that it helps you remain prone while sharing air. I understand that in a cave or wreck, but shouldn't you abort the dive and start ascending if you are sharing air on a recreational dive? Do you ascend prone?

Two schools of thought, ascend/descend vertically or horizontal/prone, for me yes prone in both cases - there are plenty of threads that cover this subject, pro's and con's. If you are sharing air on a longer hose you can keep a little off each other whilst prone or vertical, with those short hoses you are pretty much hugging the whole way up as you cant get any "breathing" room so to speak - know which i prefer.

 

[armyscuba]

What was this post about?

 

[Diver0001]

....snip....

If I am comfortable in the thick wetsuit for the duration of my dive, why shouldn't I use it?

Seriously, exposure protection is 100% about comfort with respect to recreational diving. Listen to your intuition about this.

2. As far as weights are concerned, shouldn't you use what you need and place them where you need them? If that is more than 10lbs on the belt, as long as it servesit purpose, then what does it matter?

Again, comfort, comfort, comfort. If your trim is good and both the amount of weight you have and the placement of that weight is right then I would apply the WWW (what works works) principle. Weight can come in different forms too. Lead blocks, steel tanks, back plates, etc etc. I do find it important that your ditchable weight is sorted so you can ditch part of it without having to ditch all of it in one go.

3. Is the 7' hose needed for recreational diving?

Is it necessary? No
Is it handy? Yes
Is it very handy? Yes
Is it very very handy? Yes

To really drive home the point about the strength of the longhose try swapping all of your gear with your buddy while under water and sharing air some time. Do it with the long hose and then do it with standard hoses and get back to us about what you learned. (hint: it's about having the room to sort out your problem). Granted, this isn't something you'll find yourself doing on a regular basis but having the option to create room in a messy situation is good. Not having this option open to you is avoidable so why would you choose to close that door?

R..

 

[Mako Mark]

A diver entering a D/M class is going to learn the following:

1. NAUI's or YMCA's or PADI's or SSI's etc standard recreational open water configuration, which will virtually always include a snorkel. Somewhere. Either on your mask strap, in your cargo pocket, etc.

3.

of course

2. If you are diving cold water, you will be encouraged to invest in a drysuit, and lose your thick wetsuit.
3.

sure, a cold diver wont be able to concentrate on supervision as well, and long term exposure to cold water lowers the core temperature and subsequently depresses the imune system, so the DM /dive pro will get sick.

3. If you are helping with students, your instructor will probably suggest you get a decent B/C like a Zeagle or ScubaPro, and lose the Oceanic.
3.

Ahh the Zeagle, the heaviest BC in the world. Most divemasters refuse to lift them out of the water for divers, let alone wear one. Zeagle was actually a parachute manufacturing company Called Eagle, when it was bought out by a diver and started making BCD's there were a stack of logos left over, Eagle dive gear sounds kinda silly, as would Beagle, so he added a Z to the front instead.

The scuba pro classic, Hmmmm another 1972 design, I guess flares came back in style didnt they....

4. With a decent B/C, you will be able to split up your weight between your weight belt and your integrated B/C. They you will not need to wear more than 10 lbs on your belt.
3.

I hate intergrated weight systems and do not reccommend them to anyone when a weightbelt will do, the exception is when the weightbelt becomes unmanagably heavy.

The sooner you get AOW, Rescue, Nitrox, and D/M the better a diver you will be.

3.

Depends on the instructor and the diver. More dives will help too.

Then you will be able to decide more intelligently whether you have any use for a backplate and wing and a 60 inch hose. Chances are very good that you do not. Waste of money, all
3.

Indigo, considering your statements about equipment and some rather strange ideas you have, I dont think that many people will take your last statement seriously.

BP/W is an equipment configuration that pre-dates the jacket style BCD I know as I used to make them both.

The long hose, I think it is a matter of opinion, and the argument will never be won.

You certainly created a hot thread tho.

Thats my 2 pesos.

 

[diverbrian]

I will let everybody else beat you up on the long hose. The LDS that I work through is still old school and still teaches OW with "recreational gear". This means physical contact with the OOG diver on ascent and we do make OW students demonstrate acceptable buoyancy control while in physical contact. The instructor will halt the ascent and make the students descend slightly and then finish the ascent on the the instructor's signal. Personally, since taking Advanced Nitrox training, I prefer the long hose and BP/Wings. But, I will teach in the set-up that the store is trying to sell as that is what I originally bought.

About the pocket thing though.... Those pockets are a real PITA to reach with thick gloves. It is far easier to have a canister light tied off to a harness (Gee, no dangling light) and routed up through harness directly to ones hand for example than trying to open a pocket to reach it underwater. My emergency stuff (in my actual preferred rig) is kept in a pouch on my waist band. It consists of tables (which I hope that I don't need, but one never knows), a whistle, a safety sausage and a set of EMT shears on my harness.

I recently dove my recreational rig and was cursing the thing out getting to my light (for example). There is no D-Ring to clip a camera to that I like (I use the crotch Ring to clip my camera to. It floats right up into my chest and I stay streamlined). In short, after not working with classes and doing "real" wreck diving for awhile, I simply like the lay-out of a BP/W set-up better than tucking things in a BC pocket. I used to be the other way around. If I need it fast, it is clipped to the outside of me and I unclip it and use it. There is no fumbling with zippered pockets. Simple and easy. If all I dove was warm water where I would have ungloved hands, I may feel differently. However that is not the case.

BTW, I am the last person that I thought would be defending BP/W set-ups for recreational diving. I still see nothing wrong with most standard recreational gear. I just happen to have different preferences.

 

[Kim]

I asked my last instructor for gear recommendations as my wife and I wanted our own gear and had always rented up to then. Part of the recommendation was a 7ft hose on the octopus - which I duely bought. By the time we got the gear we were back in Japan and not being a member of SB at that time - and not close to the instructor - I had no idea what to do with all that hose!! Consquently I swapped the long hoses back to their originals which gave me back a configuration that I was used to and therefore made me feel more comfortable. Now - having read the frequent posts on the subject - and also understanding now how to route it - I'll probably change it back soon. The point I'm trying to make is that it's important to know WHY you are doing something not to just do it regardless. If there is no good reason for something - then I think comfort should take priority. The other gear suggestions he made were Transpac II w. Travel wings - and Apeks regs. The Transpac II setup is simply light years better than any jacket BCD I've ever worn. The benefits for trim and bouyancy are huge - and as I use a camera a lot that's something I really appreciate - even in the warm water diving that I do.

 

[Windwalker]

Hmm.. I don't know what you guys are talking about. I dive 7mm Farmer John in 46f degree water down to 95 feet with a 20 pound weight belt. I commonly dive with poor shivering dry suit people. It seems to me that IN THE WATER, I am warmer then people with dry suits, but on the surface I am colder... (Especially in the Dead of December with a nice chill San Juan wind) If I do a dry suit, it will be to make my winter surface intervals more comfy. During the summer, I love my wetsuit.

I found out early in my dive life that a Snorkel does not do a heck of a lot for me, so it’s relegated to my dive bag. I tend to surface with more then 2000 PSI of Nitrox on my Steel 94's because most my buddies are Air Hogs. If the surface is rough then I just breathe through my regulator. No big deal. I have had to do a couple search and rescue missions for my snorkel when I used to wear it. With the lift of my BC, and the wet suit, if I drop my weights then I could do a Jesus Christ imitation and darn near walk on water.

As far as weight belt goes... If I need to drop my weight belt, it’s because I need to be up at the surface or stay on the surface. Having one place to go rather then three seems to me to be imminently better. My rig has its own weight to it, so if I have to dump weight I won’t cork that badly.