Things which I wished Ikelite made

[Eugenepommier]

Thanks dhass. I like your analysis and agree with most everything you said but I must admit I would really appreciate a larger image in the viewfinder. I am using a Rebel XT in an ikelite housing. I was amazed to find that $900 + is required to engineer some optics (and risk one more thing to leak) to get a better view. On several dives I have spotted "good shots" but by the time I could find the same thing in the "mini" viewfinder the moment had passed. I understand that there is a difficulty to having a good image when the eye is so far from the camera due to goggles and case but does it really need that much money to change it?

 

[dhaas]

Eugene,

Yes, developing what many folks think is a "simple" solution is actually quite expensive. Many people SAY they want something, but then when presented with the price back off

Plus different dSLR cameras have different amounts of eye "relief" (or view) thus making a "one size fits all" enlarging viewfinder difficult.

I personally use a very low volume mask even with my Rx in it (Atomic two window model) and with practice it's pretty easy to frame my shots.

One friend of mine DID buy the cheap (less than $20) Canon EP - EX15 I think is the part number external viewfinder magnifier. Designed to make eyeglass wearers more comfortable he had to grind the plastic edges off to fit it in his housing without it tilting the camera body forward.

But it DID enable being able to see the corners a bit better. Problem is it makes the image look just a tad farther away

Good luck, keep shooting and enjoying underwater photography!

dhaas

David Haas Underwater Photography

 

[AussieByron]

Aussie and others,

As a long time user myself (1,000s of dives with Ikelite products) and dealer who can show people how to get the MOST out of their housings I listen to people's suggestions. A lot of perceived problems are solved through techniques I teach customers when they first get their gear. I'm not perfect and no product from any manufacturer is, so take the next comments with a grain of salt so to speak. You can agree or disagree, just my 2 cents.

But here's some answers to each of your suggestions from my own experience.

* Glass in front of ports (i.e. glass dome or glass flat port)

I have argued over on the high end UW photo web sites with technically minded folks that glass is heavy, and no one can show me how this improves image quality in the real world in huge prints or elsewhere. One person says that in over / under shooting glass sheds water droplets faster (or better?). Everyone I know shooting any brand optical plexi port simply uses Baby shampoo Norbert Wu in his review of 3 brand for his Nikon D200 cameras over use of a year gave Ikelite's 8" dome port the best marks. Heck, he's using it in Antarctica!

* Modeling light attachment screw hole or ball joint on top of housing.

This IS something I have asked for. Especially now with Ikelite's LED lights in small sizes.

* Ports to screw into housings instead of two little plastic clips

I've also argued this one to no end. I have sold dozens to hundreds of dSLR housings. Plus used numerous models myself. The new port lock system has worked fine all over the world. Jumping in for dolphin snorkeling, cold and warm water diving, etc. Read the UW photo web site forums and you'll see people flooding thread-in ports, bayonet ports, etc. Maybe some day a change will come where Ikelite users can still use all their ports. But for now this simple design works when the user is shown how to mount it and make sure it's on.

One more thing on this......Ikelite housings are stainless steel and plastic. So "soaking" it versus turning controls and pumping buttons for 90 seconds to flush out salt water is a waste of time IMHO Anyone leaving ANY housing in a rinse tank without holding it is crazy. I see 99% of flood of any brand housings in rinse tanks.

* Larger opening in housing for larger lenses (some lenses are phyically too wide to fit in)

The few larger diameter lenses are ridiculously expensive and the wide angle rectilinear zooms will NEVER be as sharp in the corners as any fisheye due to a dome port's apparent image being curved, etc. You're probably referring to the Nikon 14-24mm or one or two odd super macro lenses. Not the majority of lenses that top out at 72mm or 77mm. Do you know how expensive it is to buy a new mold? And how many people who are perfectly happy with the extensive port selections for camera brand and after market lenses already exist?

* Relocation of sync cord bulkhead away from the rear of housing

Would be nice, but most users would either not install the hot shoe all the way and then not test shoot their systems while high and dry to catch this gaff. I've seen people at 50' with no flash firing in all brand housings.....It's digital folks, YOu can take a dozen test shots before you jump in and delete them all after the dive or whole day.

Or they would yank the hot shoe cord out when pulling the housing back off I've seen it done with other brand housings.

* flotation arms for strobes. Especially with DS200

Ikelite's DS160 is now the main model providing plenty of light with the ever reaching higher ISO performance in many dSLR models. The DS200 while a nice strobe is almost overkill.

*View finder extensions. user replaceable and offer magnifaction, 45 degree, 90 degree. Have something like a screw in system like the new modular ports.

Every time i see those "Pinnochio" eyepieces I cringe. Something just waiting to take a good smack and have a 1" fire hose of water shooting in your housing. A 45 degree EXTERNAL add on might be nice, but would you pay $600 - $1,000 for one? I wouldn't........I lay the camera in the sand and hover upside down and pull the trigger multiple times


* Lithium Ion batteries used in strobes

Not enough energy density yet to provide super quick recycle time to power output. Maybe someday....

*Upgrade of the DS200 like they did to the DS125/DS160

I don't promote the DS200 as the DS160 is the best power / weight / performance ratio IMHO.

*Flood alarm inside housing

It's clear.......I look immediately upon entering the water and then descend to get some pressure on the housing. My eyes are my leak detector I don't want another battery powered gizmo plus wires, space taken up in the housing, etc.

*Aluminium body for housings

Weight, corrosion, higher cost, opaque so you can't see what control you're trying to change or God forbid water coming in somewhere? Etc. Etc. Etc. I'll keep using plastic housings but then I don't dive below about 140' these days.

*LED modeling light separate from strobes which turns off when firing and has a decent battery life

The DS160 LED modeling light DOES cut out during exposure. Although I've yet to see anyone using the previous model separate LED modeling lights were it overpowered their mega blitz strobe going off. One hour of burn time (like on a night dive) barely takes 1/3 of a fully charged battery pack on the DS125 and now DS160. I use mine as my main illumination for night dives!

Finally, these comments are mine exclusively and not meant to offend anyone. Just thought I would add my perspective

dhaas

David Haas Underwater Photography

The purpose of this thread was to discuss on some of the ideas that Ikelite users such as myself would like to see Ikelite have in their lineup. It comes down to the users of products to suggest ideas often enough to see the ideas implemented. Its good to see that you as an Ikelite user and dealer that your actually showing customers how to use the products you sell them. But often the case most ikelite users will be simply reading the little white book that comes with the housing.

There isnt a perfect product out there and there is always room for improvement.

Some points to also consider are that with digital cameras entering into full frame sensors there would be a good chance that lense will be also increasing in size. Especially in wide angle zooms. It must be expensive to change the mold but its more expensive to loose customers to another product or brand that are providing a product which customers want.

As for increased view finders or 45/90 degree angle view finders. I agree that the price of these items is outrageous. Maybe thats a market for Ikelite to provide a screw in view finder for those that want it as an option. I would buy one as the size of the current Ikelite view finder is not big enough for me.

As for strobes it makes me wonder how the Inon 240 strobe is putting out the same amount of power as the DS125 and its half the size and only uses 4 AA batteries??? Interesting how alot of companies that use battery packs of some sort underwater ie Can lights, scooters, etc etc are using Li Ion batteries. Just look at Mobile (Cell) phones these days.

I agree the Ds200 in its current form is outclassed by the new DS160. The DS125 to DS160 had a 45% increase. The Ds200 with 200wps with 45% will be 290wps. That would be a serious strobe for wide angle nuts.

If its going to be a big issue with increasing price to take on changes most people will simply go straight to a housing which already has the accessories and extra features.


Just my 2 cents worth

Regards Mark

 

[dhaas]

Mark,

I do appreciate you taking the time to offer ideas on Ikelite products. I never said they were perfect, only that a huge amount of people are using them in their present form to make great images every day underwater.

I guess you haven't observed people never read manuals.........I have to tell people to bring them on my trips if they expect me to help them 99.999% of folks want AUTOMATION as far as picture taking. I call this the "Magic Formula" . Just tell them the minimum amount of information to get an in focus, colorful image.

A very VERY small minority of underwater photographers are CREATING images. So a lot of the things that might make you a happy camper would be wasted $$$$$ on most

Like the viewfinder option for dSLR housings you mention. So what would you pay? $750.00? $500.00? Something in that range might be the price to recoup engineering costs, tooling costs, etc. I posted a simpler solution to Eugene's eyepiece post that cost $20 and a 20 minutes on a bench grinder. Is it super elegant, sexy and such? No........But it works

Litium Ion batteries aren't there yet energy wise for what you say you want in strobe output. If it was it would already be in Ikelite strobes

By the way the INON 4 AA battery pack strobe may CLAIM it puts out the same power as a wide beam DS125 (or DS160?) but not all the way to the edges Most strobes no matter what the reflector arrangement have at least a one stop light fall off by the time you measure center to edge. Many brands have more than 2-3 stop difference. Plus the recycle time from 4 AA will NEVER match a bigger NiMH pack. Not even for 2-3 in a row rapidly triggered flashes.....

Those who are absolutely convinced they need many of the "high end" features you say you want (but at a discount price of course) will buy Seacam, or Subal or Nexus or Seatool. All good products but what I see are a huge amount of what I term "high end gear snapshots" posted on the web. Not trying to be mean, just honest......

So it always has and always will still come down to the photographer's skill. Plus time in the field and of course a good eye which can't be bought. Developed through practice and hard work.............

This has been a good discussion none the less and I'm sure many of the things you requested might someday find themselves in a production unit!

My participation was not to create arguments but merely to offer another point of view from someone like you who is "out there" using these tools. I sincerely hope it came across that way and even hope for us to tip a few pints someday

Looking forward to your images here or elsewhere!

dhaas

 

[laurin]

All-righty, my suggestions, coming from arctic tech/cave/wreck-photography background:

-get the rotating strobe power adjuster from Nikon housings to Canon DSLR housing range too, I don't particularly like the buttons

-a possibility to use the slave sensor with the dual strobe cord - a female-female 2-3' extension cord maybe? would it work?

-bring back the SS-400

-add the standard tripod mounting thread (1/4-20" I assume) to the bottom of the tray, should be simple enough to machine

-simple housing for the Canon IR remote - a Delrin tube with a clear endcap and a single button would probably be just fine

-if it's not possible to make the strobes neutral, try to make them balanced at least - the SS-300/400s tip over so that the light points down, DS-125s so that light points up - annoying when you're trying to light large areas with drop strobes...


A lot less realistic, but doable (maybe not by Ikelite, though):
-possibility to have the camera in the housing all the time - a battery pack that connects to the camera in the same way a vertical grip would, and would be charged from an external connector
-possibility to download pictures through an external connector


-L

 

[blibecap]

Inon 45deg Viewfinder S&S kits from Taiwan - Wetpixel :: Underwater Photography Forums

 

[blibecap]

Well not exactly screw in ports but how about a stronger port mount that would also keep the port from turning? take a look here.

Ikelite port locks

 

[heavyjeffd]

-possibility to download pictures through an external connector

-L

Laurin (and thread), have you tried the Eye-Fi card (makes your camera wireless)? Might work for you, I love it, it's like crack.

How does the Eye-Fi card work? | Eye-Fi

 

[Maddog59]

Hi all,
Thought it was time to add my two cents worth to this thread.
After 25 years of professional housing manufacture in Australia I can tell you that the things that dhass was saying in regards to cost of manufacture to retail price can be and is the major stumbling point in the manufacture of underwater photo equipment. When a peice of gear costs say $100.00 to manufacture by the time it reaches the consumer the cost will have blown out to 4 or even five times that amount. (Manufacturing Profit margin, Govenment Taxes and fees, Transport cost and Retail Markup just to name a few!)
Just so that we all understand the costs involved in some of these wish items, a piece of white optical glass 125mm dia x 10mm thick, edge ground will set back the manufacturer in Australia about $200.00 verses $5.00 for the equivelent plastic port and that is just the cost to the manufacturer.
I have recently bought an Aluminium housing from Patima for my Canon G10 and as I am a manufacturer with Computer controlled machine centers at my disposal and the expertise to build what should be the perfect housing for my tastes, I set about designing and costing the unit until I found that the costs of the materials alone made the whole exersise mute because I could by a housing off the shelf with 95% of what I needed for about the same costs as the material expenses and then make what I needed to get it to my liking.
The other point to take into consideration is the large number of different types of cameras available and the frequency with which they change models which makes the ability of the housing manufacturer to cover all bases impossible.
I undestand that this thread was about a wish list but sometimes these wish lists are just not possible for the reasons outlined by myself and dhass.

BTW I totally agree with dhass on his comment about high end snap shots. And I would also like to tip a few beers back with you all.

Maddog 59

Canon G10, Patima Housing, 2 x Inon Z240/4 Strobes hard wired( because I like to do it the old fashioned way) my own 110 degree W/A lens system and Optical dome port!

 

[dhaas]

Maddog59,

Great comments and if you will be coming to the states for the DEMA (diving industry members) trade show in 3 weeks PM me.....

Maybe well meet for a pint

dhaas

(It's dhaas gang, with TWO AAs......)