Things Scuba Instructors teach that are either bad or just wrong.

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Yeah, and you know someone somewhere is gunna be dumb enough to do that--- that's why we have so many rules/laws in today's society....

Saw a guy at a gun range pick up a loaded handgun and looked down the barrel to see if there was one in the chamber. Got thrown out immediately.

No one wants brains splattered in their place of business.

 

[GiraffeMarineSalvage]

My biggest pet peeve is some of the "e-learning" going on where in teaching a narrow topic something is simplified to a point of being deadly wrong.
Most glaring example is "e-learning" basic nitrox wanting to emphasize risks of oxygen toxicity at higher PPO2s and MOD ends up outright contradicting the common sense reality that a low level of oxygen (be it shallow water blackout freediving/ignorantly hyperventilating while snorkeling or a CCR diver with low PPO2 in their loop) is just as deadly as a high PPO2 in either a CCR loop or a diver exceeding MOD of a given EAN mix.
Totally fine to narrow beginning student focus, but only in way that advancing to more technical diving doesn't require unlearning the basics of one was taught (and in contrast I really liked overhearing a basic course instructor recently that explained to students "technically every dive is a decompression dive, but for the purposes of this course..." )

 

[Wibble]

"E-learning" is rarely a good experience. A sequential progression where jumping backwards to remind yourself of a principle or definition is difficult and made harder because you cannot highlight nor write notes in the margins, that’s if you can effectively search and find that information. It cannot be used as a reference manual, such as post-course reviewing procedures or tables, maybe when studying subsequent courses.

E-learning is far more expensive than a book and expires after a period. You can’t share the material between people, e.g. family members.

Overall a shoddy substandard experience more about gouging more money than helping students.

 

[James79]

"E-learning" is rarely a good experience. A sequential progression where jumping backwards to remind yourself of a principle or definition is difficult and made harder because you cannot highlight nor write notes in the margins, that’s if you can effectively search and find that information. If cannot be used as a reference manual, such as post-course reviewing procedures or tables, maybe when studying subsequent courses.

E-learning is far more expensive than a book and expires after a period. You can’t share the material between people, e.g. family members.

Overall a shoddy substandard experience more about gouging more money than helping students.

While I agree with most of that, my oldest is OW through SSI... And on his SSI account the course materials are always available (and updated if the course updates). Sharing it is as easy as pulling it up on a tablet and handing the tablet to someone else. Not viable for long term sharing (like loaning out a book), but it does bridge some of the gaps you mentioned.

Respectfully,

James

 

[VikingDives]

"E-learning" is rarely a good experience. A sequential progression where jumping backwards to remind yourself of a principle or definition is difficult and made harder because you cannot highlight nor write notes in the margins, that’s if you can effectively search and find that information. If cannot be used as a reference manual, such as post-course reviewing procedures or tables, maybe when studying subsequent courses.

E-learning is far more expensive than a book and expires after a period. You can’t share the material between people, e.g. family members.

Overall a shoddy substandard experience more about gouging more money than helping students.

It depends on the agency I guess, but when I taught big PADI classes I loved the eLearning students. They were far better prepared and understood the material much better than my students who'd done book learning.

With students who had taken the online classes, I could spend more time on more advanced subjects. The classes for the self-study book students were quite literally just me barfing up the same things they'd read in the book to ensure they were prepared for the test.

TDI and SDI courses are a little dryer, IMO, but they get the job done. You also have access to the manual (in PDF format).

Access to class materials is for life. They do not expire.

There's no problem with the format, the problem is the instructional standards.
For PADI book students, I am only required to look at their answers to the knowledge reviews at the end of the chapter and remediate anything they got wrong. Then I give them the final exam and we are off and diving.

PADI's elearning only requires that I administer a in-person exam. If that's passed, then I'm OK (by standards) taking the students to the water. SDI and TDI don't require a test or classroom time (though it is suggested).

PADI charges (off the top of my head) 2X the price for online that it does for books, which seems backwards to me. I can't remember what SDI charges for books, but it is about the same price as the elearning (and substantially less than what PADI charges!).

For me, elearning means that my students get to learn about things like SAC, RMV, rock bottom gas planning, basic rescue skills instead of things like the proper distance that one should be from a dive flag.

 

[boulderjohn]

"E-learning" is rarely a good experience.

When E-learning first came out, the Director of Instruction for the dive shop where I worked refused to allow it for a long time. Then he allowed it with a couple of instructors on a trial basis. It was so successful that he tried it with everyone. I think it was not until maybe my 12th student that I had someone miss a single question on the final exam. As VikingDives said, it gave us time in the classroom sessions to ad more advanced stuff. With a couple of months, we were only doing online learning in that shop.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

"E-learning" is rarely a good experience.

In my experience, for SSI and SDI courses, it has been a wonderful experience. My students using e-learning have outperformed academically my students using a book on average.

I didn't like the etouch from PADI back in 2017-ish but my understanding is that they also have dramatically picked up their game, likely equal in effectiveness as other agencies.

A sequential progression where jumping backwards to remind yourself of a principle or definition is difficult and made harder because you cannot highlight nor write notes in the margins, that’s if you can effectively search and find that information. If cannot be used as a reference manual, such as post-course reviewing procedures or tables, maybe when studying subsequent courses.

E-learning is far more expensive than a book and expires after a period. You can’t share the material between people, e.g. family members.

That is an agency specific comment.

Overall a shoddy substandard experience more about gouging more money than helping students.

Disagree on the quality of experience. For how many agencies have you taught eLearning?

 

[Bob DBF]

For me, elearning means that my students get to learn about things like SAC, RMV, rock bottom gas planning, basic rescue skills instead of things like the proper distance that one should be from a dive flag.

It's interesting that one would get different training, depending on the use of different media. I would think the object of training would be to recieve the same knowledge and skills, regardless of reference materials.

 

[boulderjohn]

It's interesting that one would get different training, depending on the use of different media. I would think the object of training would be to recieve the same knowledge and skills, regardless of reference materials.

He is talking about the things he has time to add to the learning with the additional time he has with the students. That will be instructor-specific.

I mentioned the shop I was in that went all online after seeing how well it worked. In that case, the Director of Instruction (not the same guy as the first one) asked us all to make a list of the stuff we taught in addition to the required learning. He went through that list for each instructor and made a list of what he thought was most valuable so that each instructor would add that material.

There is a fine line, though, between adding useful material and overloading the student with stuff they don't need to know. When you add too much unnecessary stuff, stuff the student can learn later as a more experienced diver, then you risk interfering with the learning process and causing the student to forget the important stuff they really need to know.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

It's interesting that one would get different training, depending on the use of different media. I would think the object of training would be to recieve the same knowledge and skills, regardless of reference materials.

I touch on that stuff on my AR dive planning document. I don't think any agency has such information. In order to avoid the theory of interference that John mentioned, I just have it as a workbook exercise. It is meant as a reference material and the purpose is to get students comfortable with diving with each other post certification which is a wrstc guideline that is rarely met.