The Wisdom? of Split Dives Discussion

[johndiver999]

In some areas they drop multiple people in different areas and many have no float,so by the end of the dive the drifting divers are scattered all over. The boat has no good way to track them without a float. This is pretty common, but when you have groups diving wrecks that are apart from each other, the potential for scattering is increased. So it may not be so clear cut as to what kind of scattering is acceptable. Still not as dangerous as shark diving in my estimation which is commonly recognized as s as n acceptable risk.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

I can't say I've ever seen split drops, but I'm more a beach at home rather than boat on vacation diver. (Done both, but 90% of my dives have been teaching off a beach or research off a small research boat, not a tourist boat.)

I really can't imagine this happening. In Hawai'i (Maui and Hawai'i proper) I've always looked around to get with a more experienced group of divers. That's what allows me to go out to the cool sites. The idea that a buddy and I would get dropped off on, say, the back side of Molokini with the boat motoring over to the crater for the newbies seems nuts. (OK, bad example: There's not even line of sight between these two.) Maybe I'm overly cautious, but while I enjoy the more challenging dives I'd still want the boat up there ready to assist if needed unless I can easily swim to a populated shoreline.

 

[rsingler]

I'm not here to defend the practice of split drops, but it's useful to consider how this evolved. As several of you know first hand, running a dive boat is no gold mine.
Especially after COVID, with greatly decreased diver density on board, breaking even can be a real challenge.
Add in technical divers with more equipment (and boat space occupied) and then couple that with double the dive length counting deco where you can only make one run in a morning instead of two.
It's easy to see that a captain might just shift his business model to running a cattle boat with quick trips that could conceivably double his revenue.

Split drops are essentially a courtesy to tech divers working a wreck that may be inaccessible to rec divers. Since (99% of the time) it's drop and go, with nothing needed from the boat crew for more than an hour, it's easier to understand this normalization of deviance (think Conception).

The further Florida deviation of dropping divers at multiple nearby locations to reduce congestion at popular sites again shows how normalization of deviance eventually can lead to a tragedy.

What would be the community technical response be absent this accident, if you were presented with double or triple the cost? What if operators had to listen to the crowd complaining about "special privileges" if the larger OW group had to sit seasick in the hot rocking boat while the crew stayed on station for the first 15 minutes to make sure the tech group was okay? Or if the rec divers had to have a short second dive so the boat could get back on station in time for predicted tech end dive time?

I'm not justifying it. I'm saying, it's a complex decision tree in a low profit environment.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

I can definitely see the rationale from the boat owners' perspective. I wonder about tech divers being upset about having to pay more. Given the cost of equipment and gas mixes, paying extra for a boat ride by either going with a smaller boat that has all tech divers or booking a larger boat for themselves seems like a drop in the bucket.

I guess it's an Uber vs. public bus situation in my mind. You want to get the cheapest rate, you ride with a bunch of other people to designated stops. The bus departs at specific times that may not suit you. There may be a perfect bus line for you or there may not be. If you want to go to site X, stay there for time Y, and then get picked up, you pay more for the Uber. Or buy your own car.

 

[doctormike]

I'm interested in this topic - not sure I understand the strategy. I'm from NYC, and we just tie into the wrecks. But I understand that in FL with heavier currents that's not always ideal, and I have done a few drifting deco tech dives there.

If you are doing a hot drop on a wreck, and it's not a split drop, does the boat stay on station during the dive using power and then just follow the SMBs as the divers leave the wreck? How does that work with different profiles, or does everyone leave the wreck at the same time?

 

[johndiver999]

I’m not sure what a lot of people do but the way that we dove deep Rex was to drift into them with no float and then leave the wreck at the same time sending up SMB’s the boat stays on station waiting for the SMB’s when they arrive on the surface, the boat follows them. Problems arose when the current is over 3.5 mph and the smbs appear late or early. The boat operator must see the smb when it arrives on the surface or the boat stays on station and the divers drift away and out of sight in a minute or three, depending on sea state of course.

Of course the boat needs to stay under power to hold station in strong current and wind, it is best to stay just upstream of the wreck so you won’t chop up an ascending smb, but depending on the sun angle that is not always best

 

[gamon]

Split drops are a great way for divers of different experience and training levels to enjoy the sport.

To say the practice is "stupid" and should be stopped is simply short sighted and shallowminded. Especially since there isn't any factual data to support that the practice has resulted in more fatalities or poorer outcome of dive accidents that would have happened regardless of whether or not it was a split drop, a hot drop, a moored dive, or a shore dive.

Might as well say whatever color the guys tank was should be outlawed because hey, it could have been part of the problem or made it worse for some reason.

 

[doctormike]

Split drops are a great way for divers of different experience and training levels to enjoy the sport.

Couldn't they just go on different boats?

To say the practice is "stupid" and should be stopped is simply short sighted and shallowminded. Especially since there isn't any factual data to support that the practice has resulted in more fatalities or poorer outcome of dive accidents that would have happened regardless of whether or not it was a split drop, a hot drop, a moored dive, or a shore dive.

Are you saying that there is no safety advantage of surface support? Especially for a technical dive?

I mean, most of the accidents that I have seen around here involve the injured diver being immediately brought on board the dive platform where things like O2, AEDs, CPR, radio contact with first responders and rapid evacuation are options. Not to mention the risk of secondary drowning when an injured diver makes it to the surface but can't be kept afloat in the open ocean.

Not sure what you mean by factual data. To prove that in a study, you would need to study randomized matched cohorts of dives. Given the rarity of these accidents, you would probably need a few thousand dive trips in each arm to reach statistical significance. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence

Might as well say whatever color the guys tank was should be outlawed because hey, it could have been part of the problem or made it worse for some reason.

C'mon, don't trivialize the issue.

I get it that it's a calculated risk, and it's part of the dive culture there. I'm not saying it's stupid, I'm just a Yankee wreck diver, I would never go down there and tell you guys how to operate in your conditions. All diving is a calculated risk, especially CCR and technical diving.

But no surface support is no surface support, however you want to spin it. In my mind, that ain't the same thing as tank color.

 

[L13]

How is a split drop any less safe than a a shore dive? Especially if you have a surface swim. If you had a 15 min surface swim out, you have more than a 15 min surface swim in to shore towing a casualty. How many shore divers have the emergency gear (AED, O2, etc.) that is available on a boat. Once you are on shore, you can call for help, but it will take a while to get there, even if you are near civilization.

People routinely dive without surface support. Why should it be mandated for boat dives? If you want it, you can pay extra for it. Otherwise, accept it the way you accept all the other risks of the dives you choose to do.

Having a heart attack 30 min from your boat is safer than having a heart attack 30 min back in a cave. At least you have access to the surface while waiting for the boat.

 

[jadairiii]

Split drops are a great way for divers of different experience and training levels to enjoy the sport.

To say the practice is "stupid" and should be stopped is simply short sighted and shallowminded. Especially since there isn't any factual data to support that the practice has resulted in more fatalities or poorer outcome of dive accidents that would have happened regardless of whether or not it was a split drop, a hot drop, a moored dive, or a shore dive.

Might as well say whatever color the guys tank was should be outlawed because hey, it could have been part of the problem or made it worse for some reason.

Ask Damar Hamlin about the benefit of having access to immediate first aid.

There are reams of data to support the practice of victims receiving immediate first aid resulting in less fatalities. A dive boat conducting split drops has to leave one set of divers to fend for themselves. At a minimum, the dive boat will not be the platform for others to administer first aid.

Leaving divers to drift in open water for an indefinite period of time without supervision is, well, stupid. Especially in an area like the Lowrance which can routinely experience 2 to 4kts current and heavy boat traffic.