The Viking and the Rabbit, an uneasy truce

[Ber Rabbit]

The Viking Xtreme and I went for another spin this weekend. It was dive #19 in the suit if you count my training dives. This was the first time since my training dives that I've been able to control the suit at the end of the dive. I had done ok during the training but went downhill quickly once I was diving it on my own. I was using the 400g Viking underwear and was cold in the 60 degree water so I've got some insulation work to do to keep my scrawny body warm.

This was the first dive where the suit vented as it should, normally it vents so slowly that I don't put any air in the suit for fear of another uncontrolled ascent. I was actually able to put air in the suit and relieve the squeeze enough to only come home with three "hickeys."

I'm still a little heavy on the weight belt but I have dropped from 28 to 24 pounds to sink the suit and my 125lb frame. Hopefully the next time out I can drop to 22lbs and still be able to control the suit at the end of the dive. I came up with 1000psi in the AL80 both dives this weekend and was able to hover at the safety stop without any air in the bc so I'm a little hesitant to drop any more weight. Unfortunately my XS BC would probably begin to have trouble supporting the excess weight I'm wearing at depths much greater than the 72 feet we saw Sunday. I'm pretty sure the BC was almost completely full at that depth.

I did manage to enjoy both dives and stay relatively dry, quite an accomplishment for me! Hopefully I'll be able to take the suit out again soon and see if the truce is going to turn into a lasting peace between myself and that suit. We've had a hard go of it until now and so far the suit has won most of the battles, I'm just hoping it's tired of fighting and ready to be friends
Ber

 

[Big-t-2538]

Yeah Ber....your first "dry" suit dive!!!

But seriously...a few more dives with it, and I think you two will understand each other.

 

[MechDiver]

Ber Rabbit once bubbled...

I'm pretty sure the BC was almost completely full at that depth.

I would suggest you dive with someone familiar with drysuits and take a look at this. There is no way you should need that much lift at that depth.

MD

 

[Tractor Tom]

I wear the same suit. I'm 6'-4" 260 lbs and wear about 20 lbs total weight and an aluminum backplate which really doesn't weigh all that much. I guess I'm surprized about a couple of your statements. I wear a 300wt one piece undies over long johns and a long sleeve cotton tee shirt and was in a 44 degree lake on Sunday and not cold. I'm a bit surprized that you are getting cold wearing the Viking 400 wt undies in 60 degree water. Well that is an individual thing, some people get cold quicker than other.

Do you have the exhaust vent clear open? I tend to run mine open all the way, all the time with no leaking and that allows it to vent very quickly. I have cranked it down a turn (by mistake) and found it wouldn't vent off the way that I want it too. Like you, I wear the suit quite tight and suffer 'hickies' usually on my shoulders, but that is just a matter of taste. I prefer it tight unless it's very cold water, and then I'll put on some extra weight and add air once I get down below 15 feet or so.

Oh, for the record, I have about 29 dives on my suit total. I had bouyancy problems on the first 4 or 5 dives, as we were lake diving and when swimming up the slope, physics would take over suddenly and I would find myself popping to the surface from shallow water (say 6-15').

Would love to discuss this with you and see if we can work through your difficulties together, as we are both quite new with the Viking suit....

 

[Ber Rabbit]

MechDiver
I don't use the suit for buoyancy and my BC is an XS Oceanic. When I dive a 7mm suit I only carry 14lbs and am getting ready to drop that to 12lbs. One dive with the dry suit I forgot how much lead I usually carry and put 30lbs on the belt (that'll teach me to check with my log before making my belt). That was WAY too much lead for the BC to handle at depth, it was full and I was still sinking at 60 feet. Luckily I'm a strong swimmer and was able to manage the weight while "getting the heck out of there." I don't remember the lift capacity of the BC but I'm guessing the amount of weight I'm carrying is getting close to the max the BC can handle. When we carved pumpkins the other weekend I wore the 24lbs and had the BC full and was unable to keep the pumpkin afloat once I put enough rocks in it on the surface to make it slightly negative.

As I get a little more confident in my ability to keep the suit from sending me for another uncontrolled ascent I add more air to the suit and relieve more of the squeeze. This will probably make a difference in the amount of air I need to put in the BC later. I'm sure my apprehension about diving in the suit isn't helping matters either. I don't trust it yet, I've had too many bad experiences. My instructor is still freaked about the amount of lead I carry because it's too much for my size. I'm going to try a harness weight belt system to see if that will help keep my suit from trapping air below the weight belt at the safety stop. I'm quite small and even the XS suit seems big on me, the Viking undies have helped a lot with the fit. I dive with my hubby and another friend who dive the same suit and absolutely love it. My husband outweighs me by 100lbs and wears the same amount of lead that I do so I KNOW I should be able to drop a few pounds.

Frankenmuth-Tom
Twenty pounds huh? I am SOOOO jealous especially since you outweigh me by 135lbs. I know I shouldn't be cold in the 400g, maybe it's just because I haven't yet adapted to the change from hot to cold weather. Later I'll be wandering around outside in a tank top in 15 degree weather and not be cold. Bob3 has made a couple of recommendations for another layer or two to put under the undies until I adjust to the cold. Have you checked the profile pic? I don't have any body fat to help out in the insulation department, my internal organs are practically on the outside of my body

I dive with the vent all the way open and check it often during the dive since it tends to sit on my inner bicep where any movement of my arms seems to adjust the valve by rubbing it against my chest. Previous dives have seen me desperately clinging to an ascent line while my sleeve was completely full of air and nothing was coming out of the valve no matter which way my buddy and I adjusted it. Once I was within 2 feet of the surface the thing would start venting like crazy. Luckily the last two dives have been much better, the venting happened fairly easily although I did have to squeeze the arm with my other hand to get the rest of the air out. I was, however, able to hover at the safety stop for the first time ever--YAY! I was also able to maintain the 30fpm or slower ascent rate all the way to the surface for the first time since my training dives. I was quite proud of that accomplishment!

I've had a lot of trouble keeping the neck seal from leaking. I guess my neck is just too small because I've never cut the seal and it's still too loose. We did finally manage to fold it under just right last weekend so very little water got in (the undies were damp at the neck area) and I'm learning how to hold my head and move my body to avoid encouraging the seal to move away from my neck.

I may be warmer once I am confident enough to put more air in the suit. There is a distinct possibility that I'm not allowing the undies to work the way they are intended because there is no air space in the suit. Two weeks ago the suit took a bite out of my knee it was squeezing so tight. Luckily it didn't get deep enough to bleed but I lost a few layers of skin in a small area.

I'm always open for a dive if my schedule isn't aready booked!
Ber

 

[MechDiver]

you appear to be very overweighted, as you tend to agree...I think. It sounds like the suit does not fit you well, and like you said, being hyper about it when you get in the water is not going to help.
The bottom should not be trapping air, but that is probably technique. Also, I dive my suit very tight and don't have warmth issues with my Weezle. If the undergarments are good, you don't need a ton of air in the suit to keep warm unless doing some long deco stuff.

Methinks you need to re-evaluate your situation Ber before you get hurt. FWIW.

MD

 

[Uncle Pug]

slow to vent you say... are you sure that your undergarment is not blocking the exhaust valve. Some UG outer shells are wind resistant and do not allow air to escape if they cover the exhaust valve.

I burned holes in the shell of my Weezle in the vicinity of the exhaust valve for that very reason.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

Mechdiver
Yep, definitely overweighted but starting to lose the excess. This weekend was the first time I took the suit on a deep dive (70 feet) because it was the first time I felt I had enough control of the suit and enough weight off of the belt to manage such a thing. Our pumpkin carving dives in the 40 foot quarry last weekend had gone fairly well except for some leaking of the neck seal and had given me a much needed confidence boost allowing me to relax and work with the suit instead of against it for the first time.

I know the bottom trapping air is a technique issue, I do tend to invert sometimes when I dive and that sends the air to the legs. My first dives on my own with the suit were done almost completely inverted for the entire dive, I'm actually quite comfortable with all the kooky positions the suit can put me in. I don't know why I was able to do so well during the training then completely screw up when diving myself. I finally got to the point where I just told the suit, "You want to dive upside down? Fine, we'll dive upside down!" at least it kept my fins off the bottom. I was so pleased this weekend to be able to maintain a horizontal and relatively trim profile so things have gotten A LOT better!

Glad to know the undies should be able to do their job without a lot of air. They are the Viking 400g thinsulates, Bob3 said most people can't stand to dive them in water over 40 degrees when he sold them to me. Guess I'm just not most people He's made some suggestions for another layer that should make my life better. Adding the "official undies" has made the suit fit a lot better.

Thank you for the concern, I have absolutely no intention of getting myself hurt. I'm slowly working with the suit in environments and gear I'm both comfortable and familiar with. I never change environments without my husband as my buddy since he's the most familiar with my needs as they pertain to working with the suit. I only change one thing at a time, last week it was depth and the dives have actually been getting better as of my last 2 dives.

Uncle Pug:
I'll have to see if the suit is blocking the valve, I believe what I was wearing before I got the official undies may have been doing just that. I'm not sure if the undies are wind resistant, Bob3 sold them to me so I'm sure he'd know.

I'm always open to suggestions! Thanks guys!
Ber

 

[Uncle Pug]

Ber Rabbit once bubbled...
I'm not sure if the undies are wind resistant, Bob3 sold them to me so I'm sure he'd know.

...and try to blow through the outer shell.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

That suit should vent well enough if the OP valve is open
(almost) all the way.

I usually leave the valve about 1/2 way open DURING a dive so that I can vent the suit by raising my arm.

Keep in mind that the more you vent and inflate the more
nice warm air is being sent out into the cold water.

Vent once to descend, vent as infrequently as possible
during the dive, stay ahead of the curve during ascent.

G_M

p.s. my suit has never leaked. I don't quite understand why
so many folks seem to own "almost" dry-suits.