The Truth about Dive Paradise and the ScubaBoard Invasion

[oly5050user]

I've stayed out of this because I wasn't there, am not likely to go, and don't imagine I'd find the type of diving I like to do at that venue. I would like to comment from the dive operators point of view, however.

Yes, we offer perks to the trip organizers. Those perks take the form of free spots for each spot sold, and in the form of commissions. For those organizers, we expect them to earn those perks. If someone is late paying, we go to the individual first, then we go to the organizer. When someone is lost at the airport or between the airport and the boat, we expect the organizer to go fetch them. When someone is arrested (Sorry, officer, this is what I was wearing the day I was born) we expect the organizer to go bail them out of jail. Organizing dive trips for 4 of your buddies isn't a big deal, but organizing one for 100 is an amazing headache, and the organizer EARNS those free spots. Sometimes the organizer hands them off to his minions to do the diver wrangling, sometimes they use them themselves and they do their own wrangling, but no one should feel bad that the folks who put in hundreds of hours to make this work got to ride the plane and the dive boat for free. It wasn't free, folks.

As far as commissions go, typically clubs or loose organizations return the commissions to the trip either in the form of reduced booking fees, or one of my favorites is when the club/organization tells the operator to use the commission for crew tips. When used for tips, the crew knows that they are covered, the customers know that they have tipped the correct amount, and the diving is then all inclusive. Shops and travel agents use the commission as commission, which keeps them organizing more trips in the future. That's good for business.

I don't see that anything that Cardzard or ROXANNE did was unreasonable, underhanded, or sneaky. It just isn't anyone's business if, or how much they were compensated. If you feel you were treated poorly, organize your own trip.

WOOKIE is so right.It is work to organize a group. Many hours researching,phone calls,emails. One thing that was forgotten here was liability on the trip. If someone gets hurt or whatever and wants to sue the organizer there is nothing to stop him. For that reason alone I always tell people if they want to do this go ahead,but be prepared to all problems that Wookie listed.Been there did that.Even up to getting someone out of jail once. Organizer should be a dive pro with liability insurance in case there is an accident and a suit is started.Can become a vey expensive trip for the organizer if there is an accident.

 

[D_B]

I've stayed out of this because I wasn't there, am not likely to go, and don't imagine I'd find the type of diving I like to do at that venue. I would like to comment from the dive operators point of view, however.

Yes, we offer perks to the trip organizers. Those perks take the form of free spots for each spot sold, and in the form of commissions. For those organizers, we expect them to earn those perks. If someone is late paying, we go to the individual first, then we go to the organizer. When someone is lost at the airport or between the airport and the boat, we expect the organizer to go fetch them. When someone is arrested (Sorry, officer, this is what I was wearing the day I was born) we expect the organizer to go bail them out of jail. Organizing dive trips for 4 of your buddies isn't a big deal, but organizing one for 100 is an amazing headache, and the organizer EARNS those free spots. Sometimes the organizer hands them off to his minions to do the diver wrangling, sometimes they use them themselves and they do their own wrangling, but no one should feel bad that the folks who put in hundreds of hours to make this work got to ride the plane and the dive boat for free. It wasn't free, folks.

As far as commissions go, typically clubs or loose organizations return the commissions to the trip either in the form of reduced booking fees, or one of my favorites is when the club/organization tells the operator to use the commission for crew tips. When used for tips, the crew knows that they are covered, the customers know that they have tipped the correct amount, and the diving is then all inclusive. Shops and travel agents use the commission as commission, which keeps them organizing more trips in the future. That's good for business.

I don't see that anything that Cardzard or ROXANNE did was unreasonable, underhanded, or sneaky. It just isn't anyone's business if, or how much they were compensated. If you feel you were treated poorly, organize your own trip.

Amen....thread can end on that note.

:dancinglock:

 

[Darol]

Posted by: Dougr52

hang in there mossman... darol where are you??? mossman needs help!!!

Never had an issue with Hotel Cozumel, or making a buck and getting a few free trips.
In fact I always stay at Hotel Cozumel, I love it there. I'm sure other Op's on the
island can handle the invasion. I think other posters have been treated less than fair.
That was my bitch from the start.

 

[Mike]

Exactly. With all the advertising provided, they could have provided wonderful deals, if only they weren't constrained by having to grant freebies to all the principals. Too bad it's not a non-profit club sort of atmosphere where all the people could have realized the benefits of group savings and not just the organizers.

Please rename this forum to ObamaSocialistScubaBoard.com, perhaps all future invasions can be funded through 'Obama Money' from his private stash. Mossman, I don't know if you're just pulling everybodies chain or what here, this last statement from you is really off the wall. Perhaps you're going into work on monday and telling your employer you're working for free for the next month to promote a non-profit club sort of atmosphere where all the people will realize group benefits and savings for your donation of working for free for the company?

 

[driftin' by]

I have absolute no dog in this fight (much like Mossman), but....

Clubs, on the other hand, convert the freebie back into a discount spread over all their members on the trip, or as you suggested, they might leave it for the tip (though how the freebie offered by the owner gets converted into a tip for the crew is a mystery).

Really? Where is it a written rule that clubs convert the freebie back into a discount!?!? There is not dichotomy between how the two operate. I have a hard time wrapping my head around why you're so determined to wanna $hit on their parade.

Too bad it's not a non-profit club sort of atmosphere where all the people could have realized the benefits of group savings and not just the organizers.

The members did realize the benefits of group savings and I still haven't seen you provide evidence of a better price to be had.

I would organize my own trip, but first I need to organize my own scuba diver BBS and drum up customers, er, I mean members.

Whats with all the excuses when just a couple days ago you said the following????

Now would I be up to organizing an event for 100+ divers without remuneration? Sure, I'd love to. In fact, I know a few TAs that would love to organize it. Wanna help me get started?

 

[cvchief]

Fin,

Geez, you are hard on Moss. People do put together trips for free. They do just as much work as CZ I am sure and do it for FREE. Does that mean Scubaboard HAS to do it that way? Of course not. Doesn't even mean that they should. Does it mean it is DIRTY that CZ got something. Heck no.

As I have read more, SB does in some fashion profit on the Invasion. You aren't advertizing on SB, you won't get the invasion. Kickback is a red word, so lets say gratuity. You have to pay a gratuity to be in the running. Nothing illegal, illicit, immoral or inflammable about it. It is a business model. NetDoc apparently adopted a business model that is designed to provide a great service to the scuba community at hopefully no expense to him. Let me use some REALLY red words. You can try to bribe NetDoc to do whatever on the board. That isn't illegal unless the action itself is illegal. Bribe, kickback and the like are usually more for people with a fiduciary responsibility to someone else so they became inflammatory here. Think about it.


Apparently Moss thinks there should be NO business model and it should be just a community of divers. I get it and it sounds nice.

Fin, you talk about a company while Moss is talking like an extended group of friends. Moss I think is talking about the core model of SB, not the invasion itself so much. It is just an example.

Personally I prefer SB the way it is. It does promote those who promote SB and uses its power of the benefit of itself and its members. Therefore they have more resources to have a fancy, nice board.

 

[Mossman]

Please rename this forum to ObamaSocialistScubaBoard.com, perhaps all future invasions can be funded through 'Obama Money' from his private stash. Mossman, I don't know if you're just pulling everybodies chain or what here, this last statement from you is really off the wall. Perhaps you're going into work on monday and telling your employer you're working for free for the next month to promote a non-profit club sort of atmosphere where all the people will realize group benefits and savings for your donation of working for free for the company?

At least Obamacare provides me with free Scubaboard. I don't have to pay for mine like you do.

Can't work today, mfinley. I'm busy writing checks to the TV networks since I don't think they should provide free programming, notwithstanding the fact I have to sit through their commercials. Then I'm writing a check to Al Gore for inventing the internet. If there's anything left, I'll cut a check to Netdoc.

 

[The Chairman]

If there's anything left, I'll cut a check to Netdoc.

Why ruin the irony?

 

[Aggiebq86]

As I have read more, SB does in some fashion profit on the Invasion. You aren't advertizing on SB, you won't get the invasion.

You could also look at it this way. In order to show our appreciation for you advertising with us, we will use your business during the Invasion. We do the same thing in our business. When you are putting together your business' Christmas card/gift list who gets included on it. The people who have helped you make money during the last year.

I don't have a problem with how Scubaboard is run. I have learned a great deal from this site for free. There are very few things in life that are free anymore.

I don't have a problem with how the Invasion was put together or if any of the organizers benefited from perks. When you look at the value they provided by putting this together it was just compensation. I couldn't have gotten as good a pricing as they did. Throw in the $1,000s in prizes that were awarded during the various get togethers and it was a great deal. I think everyone walked away from the Invasion with some sort of prize.

 

[Mossman]

I don't have a problem with how Scubaboard is run. I have learned a great deal from this site for free. There are very few things in life that are free anymore.

That is certainly true. I used to at least believe that at least the air we breathe is free, but then I started diving and learned some people can even make a buck off that