The straw that broke the divers back.

[idocsteve]

I'm just reading this Thread. Idcosteve, your remarks to NWGrateful are rude. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Let's see...

On this thread, NW has taken my posts out of context, accused me of lying about my dive experience, and changed my name while quoting my posts to "idocdumb"...and you have the audacity to suggest that I be ashamed of myself.

You need some serious introspection my dear, along with some better reading comprehension skills.

 

[lulubelle]

I wonder if anyone can find any statistics regarding dive deaths related to arrogance and overconfidence?

From some of the stories I have heard from boat captains here in Morehead arrogance and overconfidence have most certainly been factors in divers making choices which have ultimately lead to their deaths. I am thinking of one in particular from last year which involved a solo tech diver diving doubles.

When I am considering my dive buddy choices, I look at mental health and attitude first. Knowledge and safe practices second. Fitness probably third. Our conditions here are nothing to muck around with. I want to be in the water with a buddy who will remain calm and thoughtful as challenges are encountered.

 

[idocsteve]

Those are nice entry-level courses doc ... I teach higher-level ones, if you're interested.

Thanks Bob but I just wouldn't take classes from a guy who resorts to name calling and accusations of lying of those whose opinions vary from his own.

 

[Bonairetrip]

Either you're in good physical shape with great aerobic fitness and muscle tone OR you're an obese out of shape couch potato.

How can you be both?

Not true unless, by couch potato, you mean the person is not active.

Start with the obvious: you can be slim and in poor shape. Slim does not equal fitness. Lots of examples of this if you think about it...

There are people with good levels of fitness who are overweight. You will likely find some examples if you think about it (the 5'8'' 210# skier who can go all day).

Obesity is linked to health risks. Lack of fitness is also linked to health risks. Research suggests being both is bad and that being neither is best. Studies I have seen suggest that, on balance, obeses is a higher health risk than lack of fitness. That may or may not be the case in a diving situation.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I wonder if anyone can find any statistics regarding dive deaths related to arrogance and overconfidence?

From some of the stories I have heard from boat captains here in Morehead arrogance and overconfidence have most certainly been factors in divers making choices which have ultimately lead to their deaths. I am thinking of one in particular from last year which involved a solo tech diver diving doubles.

When I am considering my dive buddy choices, I look at mental health and attitude first. Knowledge and safe practices second. Fitness probably third. Our conditions here are nothing to muck around with. I want to be in the water with a buddy who will remain calm and thoughtful as challenges are encountered.

Overconfidence leads to a lot of diving accidents ... unfortunately, it's not a diagnosable medical condition. But what it inevitably does is put you in a situation where the accident occurs, rather than recognizing your limitations and planning your dive such that you avoid putting yourself in that situation in the first place.

It's very common for people to believe they are better divers than they are ... most of us are guilty of it at some point in time. I know I have been. And getting humbled can sometimes be a healthy reality check. If you dive often enough, it'll happen to you ... and it's nothing to be ashamed of.

The key thing is to recognize your limitations and work to better them, rather than trying to rationalize them away or blame them on someone else.

One excellent way to find out what your limitations are is to take a class ... choose one that will challenge your skills and build your confidence in a progressive way. For many recreational-level divers, a well-run Rescue class can do that. An instructor who knows how to provide well-structured specialty classes can provide it (there's got to be more to it than just doing the dives, though). Or, for those who choose that direction, a GUE or UTD class will help you identify the things you've assumed you know that you really need to work on.

Or if you're fortunate enough, a good mentor who's willing to take you diving and just spend a few minutes of each dive working with you on particular skills can help you find and improve your areas of weakness.

Diving is one of those areas where overconfidence can really bite you hard ... it's good to get a reality check from time to time and understand, really, where your limits are.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[idocsteve]

Not true unless, by couch potato, you mean the person is not active.

Yes, my wording was poor. The point I was trying to make was in response to this post:

You can have great aerobic fitness and muscle tone under significant excess weight and do a lot better than the typical "healthy" person.

You can't have great aerobic fitness and muscle tone AND be obese, the two conditions are mutually exclusive.

 

[lulubelle]

One excellent way to find out what your limitations are is to take a class ... choose one that will challenge your skills and build your confidence in a progressive way. For many recreational-level divers, a well-run Rescue class can do that. An instructor who knows how to provide well-structured specialty classes can provide it (there's got to be more to it than just doing the dives, though). Or, for those who choose that direction, a GUE or UTD class will help you identify the things you've assumed you know that you really need to work on.

Or if you're fortunate enough, a good mentor who's willing to take you diving and just spend a few minutes of each dive working with you on particular skills can help you find and improve your areas of weakness.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I have always had a healthy respect for Mother ocean here in NC, even though I performed my first water rescue at age 10 when I towed another kid out of a riptide. This is a place where one actually has to be a good swimmer to be a good diver. And when I say good swimmer, I am not talking about having the best pool times (my bro used to do 50meters in 21 seconds), I am talking about comfort and strength in handling variable ocean conditions.

I'm building my "bank" of successful underwater problem solving experiences. I took a great wreck class this summer with a guy who had us use the TDI advanced manual and we really got a lot out of the class. Rescue is the next class I plan to take, and after that, Advanced Nitrox and deco procedures.

I DO wish I had a good mentor/dive buddy. I'm in the market for one. Meanwhile, come to NC and dive with me sometime NW.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Yes, my wording was poor.

I'll say ...

The point I was trying to make was in response to this post:

You can't have great aerobic fitness and muscle tone AND be obese, the two conditions are mutually exclusive.

If you'd put it that way in the first place, we could've avoided a lot of what followed .

And in any case, I'll disagree with you ... as will a great many NFL football players who are ... by the charts ... obese, if not morbidly obese. Many years ago I lifted weights competitively. There was a fellow who worked out in our gym who was about 6' and close to 300 lbs. He had a gut on him that looked like the buddha in the Chinese restaurant. But the dude could hoist way more than his body weight up on a clean and jerk, and if you happened to run into that great gut of his you'd swear you just hit a Jersey barrier. To keep in aerobic shape the dude would haul a backpack filled with water jugs up a mountain ... for fun!

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have always had a healthy respect for Mother ocean here in NC, even though I performed my first water rescue at age 10 when I towed another kid out of a riptide. This is a place where one actually has to be a good swimmer to be a good diver. And when I say good swimmer, I am not talking about having the best pool times (my bro used to do 50meters in 21 seconds), I am talking about comfort and strength in handling variable ocean conditions.

I'm building my "bank" of successful underwater problem solving experiences. I took a great wreck class this summer with a guy who had us use the TDI advanced manual and we really got a lot out of the class. Rescue is the next class I plan to take, and after that, Advanced Nitrox and deco procedures.

I DO wish I had a good mentor/dive buddy. I'm in the market for one. Meanwhile, come to NC and dive with me sometime NW.

NC is one of those places I really want to dive ... so perhaps, someday.

I hooked up with one of your fellow NC divers ... BabyDuck ... in cave country last week. If she's any indication, y'all develop some good skills diving in those conditions. Difficult local conditions tend to turn out competent divers, because only those motivated to becoming competent will put in the effort to stick with it.

The courses you mention sound like a good progression ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[lulubelle]

You can't have great aerobic fitness and muscle tone AND be obese, the two conditions are mutually exclusive.

Not exactly true idoc. An overweight or somewhat obese person who exercises consistently over time can have a great deal of muscle mass and good aerobic fitness. They may also have extra fat on top of it that makes it hard for you to SEE that they have a great deal of muscle mass.

Now I'm not talking about morbidly obese people. It would be virtually impossible for them to move well enough to have good aerobic fitness and muscle mass. I'm talking about people who might be overweight or mildly obese.

This conversation reminds me of a hike I went on with my friend Lora. She is a little tiny marathon runner. I had been ill and had put on some pounds due to some medications I had to take. I had been working pretty hard to lose them, doing both strength training and cardio. I had not been very successful in losing the weight, but I had gotten rather strong and fit. So I asked Lora if she would go hiking with me, an 8 mile hike on a moderately difficult trail. She barely made it and I had to stop a few times for her to get her breath. I'm guessing that you would deem her to be the dive buddy of choice since she is leaner. As you like idoc.