This looks pretty typical to me.
The State of Diving
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LeadTurn_SD
Contributor
Typical for here in Hawaii as well.
I've seen vacationing divers with great skills.... but also an awful lot like the video.
My guess is that while some of the "flailing" divers are newly-minted, a lot of them are not... they only get to dive when on vacation, maybe 5-6 dives a year if they are lucky... or maybe 5-6 dives every five years?
I am a perpetual optimist: I think the divers in the video could spend one "quality" weekend with a good instructor, and it would be a totally different experience for them....
Best wishes.
I've seen vacationing divers with great skills.... but also an awful lot like the video.
My guess is that while some of the "flailing" divers are newly-minted, a lot of them are not... they only get to dive when on vacation, maybe 5-6 dives a year if they are lucky... or maybe 5-6 dives every five years?
I am a perpetual optimist: I think the divers in the video could spend one "quality" weekend with a good instructor, and it would be a totally different experience for them....
Best wishes.
Nitrodiverrr
Registered
The skills of divers at resort areas is not going to change. Instructors make their money by provideing a service. It is in their best intrest to train their students well enough for safty sakes. But, it is not in the instructors best intrest to be to hard nosed with OW classes. Being strict and hard nosed with students would reduce word of mouth referals, and return buisness from the student for other classes. Dive charters are a service buisness. If the operator is critical with a customers diving skills, the operator hurts their chances of having return buisness from not only that customer but anyone that person talks to about a negative experience. Poor scuba skills have little impact on the other charter's customers. The reefs pay the highest price for poor skills, not the instructor, operator, or fellow charter divers. In golf poor skills usually equates to slow play. Course rangers ask slow players to speed up and if they are unable to they are asked to let others play thru or to skip playing holes. The course operator is strict in order to make the experience better for those that have to follow behind the less skilled. The operator relies on return buisnes and doesn't want the reputaion of being a slow place to play. Slower less skilled golfers reduce the total number of customers that can be put out on the couse in a given time frame. The course operator looks at slow play from a long term view and is willing to sacrifice the loss of return buisness from the less skilled. Do you think a resort would be willing to do this ?
They're as efficient and graceful as chickens trying to swim - but they're having fun. Nothing wrong with that.
They could enjoy their dives a lot more with better training - but they might not like training - or its cost. And how many of us are in the same situation regarding swimming, surfing, skiing, music or any other activity?
If you're believe DAN statistics, they're fairly safe as well. They all look like accidents waiting to happen, but so do bikers or skiers without helmets if you ask the right person. A couple of them might end up with busted ears, mild bends, or coral stings - not really different from sprained ankles.
It's not the way I like to dive, but who am I to tell them what to do? I've never been a fan of the scuba police or other elitism.
That said, if you choose to dive like that: PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM THE REEF! I don't mind toddlers in museums, but I don't like them when they're climbing on the sculptures.
They could enjoy their dives a lot more with better training - but they might not like training - or its cost. And how many of us are in the same situation regarding swimming, surfing, skiing, music or any other activity?
If you're believe DAN statistics, they're fairly safe as well. They all look like accidents waiting to happen, but so do bikers or skiers without helmets if you ask the right person. A couple of them might end up with busted ears, mild bends, or coral stings - not really different from sprained ankles.
It's not the way I like to dive, but who am I to tell them what to do? I've never been a fan of the scuba police or other elitism.
That said, if you choose to dive like that: PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM THE REEF! I don't mind toddlers in museums, but I don't like them when they're climbing on the sculptures.
OP
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Some of the people in the video were having a great time, but at least two indicated their diving days were over. For one, these were the only two certified dives she had done, the other has been certified since 2005, with 50+ dives and decided it is not for her.
In one case, I believe better training would have made a huge difference in core competency, allowing for better control and a far more enjoyable experience. With the other diver, it was an issue of diving frequency. 50+ dives over a five year period is not a lot. As has been pointed out already, skills degrade over time and if they aren't that strong to start with......
I look at the blank eyes, the nervous movements that lack purpose and perpetual hand sculling and wonder how good a time they can really be having. Diving with the skill demonstrated in the video seems a bit like being dropped on the interstate during rush hour and having little control over your speed. Some people might find that exhilarating, others not so much.
In one case, I believe better training would have made a huge difference in core competency, allowing for better control and a far more enjoyable experience. With the other diver, it was an issue of diving frequency. 50+ dives over a five year period is not a lot. As has been pointed out already, skills degrade over time and if they aren't that strong to start with......
I look at the blank eyes, the nervous movements that lack purpose and perpetual hand sculling and wonder how good a time they can really be having. Diving with the skill demonstrated in the video seems a bit like being dropped on the interstate during rush hour and having little control over your speed. Some people might find that exhilarating, others not so much.
airbornediver1
Registered
I have to agree with Garobbo. Like many if not most of you on here, I'm an instructor with 1,000+ dives. However, I still remember, with great dismay, my first 10-15 or sadly a few more dives after getting my OW C-card. Upside down, head in the sand, mask strap breaking, stirring up silt, feeling like there were 10,000 things going on all at the same moment in time, and frustration! I still remember the exact dive and where I was when the epiphany, as it were, happened. I remember how awesome it felt when the buoyancy and the trim all fell into place. I remember coming up thinking; wow...I actually got to see some stuff and enjoy the dive without having to concentrate only on staying trim and off the bottom. All of you "elite" instructors out there think back. How many people over the age of 35 or so have made this comment: I look back at the things I did as a kid, and I'm lucky to be alive."???? Anybody ever said that? The same goes with diving. I look back at how bad I was on my first 10-15 dives and it's a wonder I ever got the hang of it. We dive for a living. These people come down and dive 1 maybe 2 weeks a year. I dive more in a week than 80% of the diving population does in 5 years. Let's get off our high horse for just a moment or two and show some humility.
RikRaeder
Contributor
I've seen better divers than this and I've seen worse, albeit more on the less-skilled side. Expanding on what Tkd, Jim, Leadturn and Nitro alluded to:
Perhaps the instructors and guides should take more responsibility. Dive pros, especially OW instructor have a HUGE influence on their students (usually). Standards aside, it's important for the pros to instil the idea of style, grace, and conservation in their customers? I know that PADI mentions these things in the training material, and I'd imagine other agencies do too. I know that some pros (instructors/guides) try to do this; not the ones handing around scorpion fish of course. What lesson did the guide on the video teach to those divers who didn't know better? Some people are hacks at whatever they do, and some strive to better themselves, but the pros have the influence and opportunity to try and make better divers out of their charges both in technique and in etiquette. Instead of deriding those who don't know what they don't know, how about focusing on the pros who do.
Perhaps the instructors and guides should take more responsibility. Dive pros, especially OW instructor have a HUGE influence on their students (usually). Standards aside, it's important for the pros to instil the idea of style, grace, and conservation in their customers? I know that PADI mentions these things in the training material, and I'd imagine other agencies do too. I know that some pros (instructors/guides) try to do this; not the ones handing around scorpion fish of course. What lesson did the guide on the video teach to those divers who didn't know better? Some people are hacks at whatever they do, and some strive to better themselves, but the pros have the influence and opportunity to try and make better divers out of their charges both in technique and in etiquette. Instead of deriding those who don't know what they don't know, how about focusing on the pros who do.
OP
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As an instructor, don't you feel the sort of thing seen in the video can be improved upon from the start? To be clear, some of the issues I witnessed:
One diver OOA, one below 300psi@30', two divers unable to hold a stop, divers standing on the reef, consoles banging the reef, fins kicking the reef.... I don't believe any certified diver should be okay with any of that.
Sas
Contributor
How experienced are the divers in the video? (if you know)
They look like new divers... that seems fairly typical of what I have seen with new divers. I've traveled to the tropics once only and there was a group that dove like this on the other boat (I have some funny footage), but I got the impression they only dived once or twice a year in warm water.
Locally I dive with people from brand new divers to people with thousands of dives, dived with about 100 buddies so far plus witnessed hundreds more in the water so far so that's my sample size (not huge but not tiny either). Most people seem to be ok (i.e. quieter in the water, decent buoyancy but trim not brilliant) from about 20 dives (before that they look like the video) and comfortable by about 50-80 (good trim and buoyancy but not perfect, how they go from there depends on a bunch of things).
Only met one person ever who had great trim and buoyancy at less than 20 dives.
So anyway, as to whether this is typical, it depends what experience level...
They look like new divers... that seems fairly typical of what I have seen with new divers. I've traveled to the tropics once only and there was a group that dove like this on the other boat (I have some funny footage), but I got the impression they only dived once or twice a year in warm water.
Locally I dive with people from brand new divers to people with thousands of dives, dived with about 100 buddies so far plus witnessed hundreds more in the water so far so that's my sample size (not huge but not tiny either). Most people seem to be ok (i.e. quieter in the water, decent buoyancy but trim not brilliant) from about 20 dives (before that they look like the video) and comfortable by about 50-80 (good trim and buoyancy but not perfect, how they go from there depends on a bunch of things).
Only met one person ever who had great trim and buoyancy at less than 20 dives.
So anyway, as to whether this is typical, it depends what experience level...
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