The State of Diving

[ScubaSteve]

most who posts these ( I assume) are people who think they would not need additional training.

I think you could not be more wrong. Most people that post it recognize that there is never an end to learning with SCUBA and that if you feel you have nothing to learn, then you should not be diving. They also recognize that a complacent diver is a dangerous diver.

 

[hbhobby]

I think you could not be more wrong. Most people that post it recognize that there is never an end to learning with SCUBA and that if you feel you have nothing to learn, then you should not be diving. They also recognize that a complacent diver is a dangerous diver.

I was referring to being a "good enough" diver and being able to continue diving without specific training.
but I do agree that the majority of people who post those are the ones who are more into continuing thier training. one reason they think more training is good. but I for one do not have the time to take formal training classes. I live 1 hour from the closest dive shop, work 18 hour days 6-7 days week on average. and I would be one of the mad guys if I was told I couldn't dive cuz I didn't have a card saying I wasn't "good enough"

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I guess this thread will drift into the same discussion by the same people about how bad training is today. It's good that some want training standards to be raised. But it's not going to happen.
If we were to go to a minimum 8 -10 day course a lot of vacation divers won't do it because if time and money constraints. That will hurt the cash flow of the industry.
And once people are certified, if they really like diving, they'll learn on their own from diving more and watching good divers and how they dive.
How many people stop diving because of poor training? I don't buy that one.
You may run into some of the divers in that video in a few years hovering 6 inches above fire coral, motionless, clearing their mask and picking their nose.

No, that model was supporting the local dive centers. Prospective students had a choice, they could devote 100% of their vacation time to training. They could take an entire open water course (class, pool, OW) at a local dive center, Or, they could do class and pool at a local dive center and do open water at a resort.

With short courses, the diver can by-pass the local dive center and still have half a week of fun diving. By-passing the local connection reduces the chance for an LDC to establish trust and a relationship with the customer. I believe less divers are supporting vast pockets of local diving while specific areas of local diving are growing. For example, I can tell you that three dive centers in a nearby city closed and I no longer encounter other divers at local dive sites. However, I think the St. Lawrence River has become a favorite "local" haunt for many northeast wreck and tech divers and has grown in popularity from when I was first there as a 15 year old diver.

The last time I was in A-Bay, I met an engineer who took a class in the islands. He wasn't comfortable in the water so he never dove after that. He approached me to ask if the commercial diver working for him could borrow a video camera or if I would come shoot video because their camera wasn't working. I tried to get him interested in giving scuba another chance. My TDI Advanced Nitrox/Deco instructor decided to quit teaching and quit diving due to the quality and state of the industry. He has taken up cycling. In both cases, quality may also just be an excuse to no longer engage in the activity for a new diver and veteran NJ wreck diver alike. Other divers with poor training and/or poor skills will stick with the sport for sure.

However, common sense would tell us that the greater the quality expected of a diver, the more divers will rise to meet that quality standard.

Some divers don't know they aren't very good.

Some divers may know they aren't very good and don't care.

Some divers may know they aren't very good and know they will get better over time.

But, I think MOST divers entered into their first OW class thinking that they would learn most of what they needed to know to be decent or good divers. Many of these have been disappointed in the value of what they paid for once they became aware that better training and information had been available from the start.

 

[Airleron]

This video is basically an exact copy of the ones we have made of our yearly trip to Cozumel with our group. (We usually have a few new divers on these trips)

On one hand, I find it hard to watch those videos anymore, due to the fact that I can't stand to see the reef abused like that. On the other, I do watch them to critique my own diving skills, finning, skulling, rig setup, etc. It really did help me hone my skills by watching myself. But it has a "cringe-factor" of about 10+.

I can only hope that the female diver in this video watched herself, and improved because of it.

 

[Hank49]

That does not mean that it is a good thing. You obviously have your opinion as do others.



Perhaps a smaller industry with safer and more skilled divers might not be such a bad thing.



This is absolutely not the case in most cases IMO. I have talked to more "Vacation divers" that absolutely love to dive once a year on vacation. "Additional classes??? Why would I do that when I can already dive on vacation?" Skills do not improve when you dive that way. If they do you are beyond the exception.



How many people die or are injured or injure somebody else because of poor training? Not agency specific....just a general question. I do not know the answer but I do believe if we turned out better divers from the start, the number would drop.



Possible......but I fail to see the problem with teaching people to dive better up front. It is OK if the diver needs to be 5' off the coral to pick their nose .....

My point was, things aren't going to change. No legal law will pass because the agencies pretty much have it covered with an acceptable record of safety.
Re vacation divers...so what if they take more classes? If they don't dive continually, they won't benefit much. You're right....skills improve with continued practice.
Yes people die because of poor training. But even if the bar is raised, there is still the "bottom of the barrel" as far as instruction. People will still die. And not only beginners, but people at any level trying to exceed their personal level.
I agree 100% that it's better if people are better trained. But again, I don't think it will ever become a legal mandate. All the best people who are dedicated to the cause can do is personally train to the highest standard they can.

 

[TSandM]

What makes me sad, watching these videos, is that the people who dive like this (who are having fun, most of them, I'm sure) could be having so much MORE fun if they were able to be quiet and stable in the water, and get very close to things to look at without worrying about hurting them.

Many people are not afforded the opportunity to dive with a skilled diver often enough to develop good diving skills;

I believe this is true. But I write to almost every new diver in the Seattle area who shows up here or on our local board, and offer to go diving with them, and I rarely even hear anything in reply, even if it's a polite refusal.

 

[Thalassamania]

It must be nice to be an experienced diver, perfect in all respects, so as one can criticize and belittle those divers who are just coming on line or only have a few dives under their belt. It must be a really big ego boost for those who are inclined to do so. And: "C-cards are given to people with the bare minimum dive skills"? I guess so, since they are newbies who have only had two days of open water. Get a life.

Do you think that "the bare minimum skills" that people get out of, "only had two days of open water" are sufficient or does the "system" need a significant performance overhaul?

Sorry to say, but I know people who got certified before I did who dive like that. They don't dive very often ... and they don't see any reason why they should put any effort into improving their skills. And so they will never get any better, no matter how long ago they got certified.

It would be a mistake to assume that those are all new divers ... they might not be.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Quite right, there's a pretty good change that they never got any better, may even have gotten slightly worse.

 

[warmwaterturner]

A sad demonstration indeed. I would hope that this was a Discover Scuba class but I fear not. I do have one question - and don't mean to hijack but - what is the deal with the DM handing a scorpionfish to a uninformed diver to pet???????????

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The DM should include awareness in the briefing... "many of you haven't been diving since you were here last year, welcome back, and to our new divers welcome to my ocean. I am reminding you to be aware of the environment you about to enter and to respect it by practicing proper buoyancy, be aware of where your fin tips are by finning in such a manner to not make contact with our reefs, please watch me as I do my best to set a good diver example"

If the DM is encouraging his clients to handle a scorpionfish ... and hasn't thumbed the dive after he's put one of them on his own air supply because they used theirs up ... then I would suggest that he's part of the problem ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Agreed! My eyes are burning after seeing that. I only have to think back to monday night to know that there really is no excuse for this other than greed and laziness. I do wish I had a video camera to show the three students I had in the pool doing their bailouts.

Even though one dropped her mask and only had one hand holding her belt she still managed to stop. Take three slow breaths, put the belt on, her bc, and then locate the dropped mask and finish the drill. This is the one who I had in the pool three weeks ago privately to get her through mask drills. She is also my "snowflake" student. I call her that because that is what her ascents and descents look like. Graceful, slow, and in total control.

Another forgot to dump all the air out of her bc. She fell in, hit 7 feet, and stopped. The bottom was at 10. I was going to give her an extra weight but she waved me off and did the drill midwater. Upside down until she righted herself to clear the mask. Her husband had my weight belt off and me under control during the panicked diver drill in exactly 47 seconds. The last 15 minutes they were swimming around as I always allow them to. They spent the time, by choice, doing OOA drills with each other while swimming, mask drills, and just hovering horizontal as best they could. Why? Because that is how they see me doing things and the videos I refer them to and show them show divers doing the same thing. Not thrashing around, kneeling, hitting the bottom, etc. Could I teach them to do this in a weekend? Nope. Would not even try. The results, to me and from the comments I get from the students as well, are more than worth the time spent getting to them. I get questions as to why are they kneeling in that video they saw on you tube. How can someone learn all they need to learn in two weekends and be safe? How do they remember everything they need in that short a time? My answer is I really have no idea.

Could I make a living teaching how I do for the prices I do? Nope, and the beauty is I don't have to. If I did it would be a big problem. Geography is a big thing here. As is the economy now. But I'm twice as busy as I was last year or more. Of course my wife's illness put some restrictions on me last year and I do not regret any of that. This year keeping busy is keeping me sane. But I am also aware that the program I offer has restrictions as well. Two weekend classes are not possible. The OW class is 6-8 weeks, twice a week or more.

It takes time and effort. But when I see things like I saw monday night I know in my heart it is worth it and that when my students go out and dive on their own I'll be proud that my name is on their card wherever they go. And that not only would I dive with them but I'd trust them with anyone I cared about.