The State of Diving

[RU4SKUBA]

The attitude that instructors are responsible for the students' individual learning is somewhat arrogant and very much misplaced. Most education philosophy --particularly experiential education-- suggests that the importance lies within the individual learners motivation and has little to do with the teacher.

The notion that a teacher can control the learning of a student is very close to ludicrous and contrary to contemporary teaching method.

 

[vinegarbiscuit]

The attitude that instructors are responsible for the students' individual learning is somewhat arrogant and very much misplaced. Most education philosophy --particularly experiential education-- suggests that the importance lies within the individual learners motivation and has little to do with the teacher.

The notion that a teacher can control the learning of a student is very close to ludicrous and contrary to contemporary teaching method.

I'm not sure that's what folks are driving at when the the topic of instructors' responsibility to students is mentioned. A previous poster put it best when she/he said something like, "I'm nowhere near at the same level as my instructor, but he was willing to teach me the skills needed to help bridge the gap, and I was willing to put in the work, too".

 

[vinegarbiscuit]

I'm in as well! Look, we are the guests in the underwater world. Is it tooooo much to ask that we act like it! Dam, we do enough damage to the world we do live in.

Like Groucho Marx, I don't care to belong to an organization that accepts people like me as members. But I'll most definitely make an exception in this case!

 

[RikRaeder]

The attitude that instructors are responsible for the students' individual learning is somewhat arrogant and very much misplaced. Most education philosophy --particularly experiential education-- suggests that the importance lies within the individual learners motivation and has little to do with the teacher.

The notion that a teacher can control the learning of a student is very close to ludicrous and contrary to contemporary teaching method.

I think that rather than CONTROL the students' learning, it's hoped that instructors/guides will INFLUENCE it.

 

[Thalassamania]

The attitude that instructors are responsible for the students' individual learning is somewhat arrogant and very much misplaced. Most education philosophy --particularly experiential education-- suggests that the importance lies within the individual learners motivation and has little to do with the teacher.

In my experience instructors have a lot to do with their student's individual learning. "Modern Educational Philosophy" is aimed at mandatory attendance public schools, and similar situations that are radically different that modern diver education, I don't think the two can be co-mingled willy-nillie. There is no question that individual motivation is important, there is also no question that instructors influence that motivation both through the selection of motivated students and the ways in which they motivate students during the class.

The notion that a teacher can control the learning of a student is very close to ludicrous and contrary to contemporary teaching method.

Horse pucky.

 

[acwest]

What do I dive for?
...
But there is also the 'activity' diver. The tourist who's never in the water, see a 'dive' entry on his all inclusive resort program and thinks that it sounds like fun. For him, diving is no different than a snorkeling trip, a bus tour to the volcano or a horse ride.
...
I think that's where a good part of the dive industry is headed. Snuba without the hose. Unless an agency gets suddenly slapped with a million dollars class action lawsuit because they are directly responsible for misleading customers or damaging the environment, it's there to stay. The problem is: how to make that kind of diving as safe as it can get, as respectful of the environment as possible, and how not to dilute our kind of diving.
...

The solution to this problem might already exist. There exists a certification level that is made for just this type of diver. PADI calls it "Scuba Diver" I believe. ACUC has the same thing. I believe CMAS 1* is effectively equivalent to this as well. Essentially, it is a limited certification that requires the diver to always dive with a DM or Instructor. The real question is why are these students not being given the certification that is appropriate to their needs? Generally, I never even hear of it as an actual option.
-Craig

 

[acwest]

I think there is a good case for training fully autonomous divers, capable of taking responsibility for both selection, planning and execution of a dive. I think that's the kind of diver you (and many other on this board) want to train.

I also think there is a good case (or at least a market) for low commitment guided dives in a small group, good controlled conditions, and where the gear, site selection, planning and profile are left to a professional. This is the way most vacation dives are executed.

So why aren't these divers being given a card that says that, instead of one that says they are qualified to dive as part of an independent buddy team with no supervision? The card exists, but nobody seems to be giving it out...

 

[Thalassamania]

The solution to this problem might already exist. There exists a certification level that is made for just this type of diver. PADI calls it "Scuba Diver" I believe. ACUC has the same thing. I believe CMAS 1* is effectively equivalent to this as well. Essentially, it is a limited certification that requires the diver to always dive with a DM or Instructor. The real question is why are these students not being given the certification that is appropriate to their needs? Generally, I never even hear of it as an actual option.
-Craig

So why aren't these divers being given a card that says that, instead of one that says they are qualified to dive as part of an independent buddy team with no supervision? The card exists, but nobody seems to be giving it out...

Exactly.

I'll tell you why not, because the agencies do not think that is sexy enough to sell.

 

[SC_Hoaty]

How to get a good laugh:
1) read 3 days worth of posts on this thread
2) Watch the "Undersea World of Jacques Cousteau" on TCM tonight
3) Critique the diving form shown
4) Watch their respect for the reef!

Of course, is it funny or distressing?

 

[Thalassamania]

How to get a good laugh:
1) read 3 days worth of posts on this thread
2) Watch the "Undersea World of Jacques Cousteau" on TCM tonight
3) Critique the diving form shown
4) Watch their respect for the reef!

Of course, is it funny or distressing?

I dove with the Cousteau group back in the late 1960s, I'm a much better and much more careful diver now. We all do learn with time.