The short list

[thethumper]

O-ring once bubbled...

But not everyone wants to have 2 BCs. I like my bp/wing for both singles and doubles, but have never tried a Transpac II. I guess I like what I have just fine and it sure seems a lot cheaper to me..

Well......... When you move up to a TPII from a stab jkt & from TPII (w/400-500 dives on it) to a BP/W set up. You know you will never get what you paid out of the TPII. And it looks in as good a shape as the ones hanging in the LDS's. The only way to tell it's not new is the red DD flag & white script on the shoulder straps are a bit muddled.

Diving sgls w/a BP/W means I need to add yet another piece to the rig. & I can't dive a Classic wing w/sgls, so I would need to take my Rec off my TP & put it w/the BP for sgls. :grrr: :banging:

REMEMBER WHEN ALL YOU NEEDED TO GO SWIMMING WAS A TOWELL & TRUNKS!!!

 

[Epinephelus]

O-ring once bubbled...
But not everyone wants to have 2 BCs.

Quite right. I think the minimum should be three.
E. itajara

 

[leadweight]

Let me see now,
Many of the backplate guys around here own a Halcyon BP with a Pioneer 36# for $555. Discounts are hard to come by on Halcyon, although it is possible to save a couple of bucks with a FredT BP. The Pioneer is single tank only, so they need an explorer wing for $338, for a total of $893. Typical price for a TP2 with Travel wing $450. Classic wings $200. Aluminum BP and harness $70. Two complete BC's for $720. Saving money, no. Saving closet space, possibly. (It is possible to substitute a Classic wing for the Explorer, but that just gets back to the same price range as two complete rigs. I chose the Halcyon prices as that seems to be what the BP lovers aspire to due to their frequent DIR orientation..)

Now put it in perspective:

Add up the cost of steel doubles with manifold and bands, two din regulators, custom hoses, stage regulators, canister light, exposure protection, cave certification, deco certification, mixed gas certification, helium fills not to mention travel and boat operators. Megabucks and a lot of closet space.

Seems to me like having an extra BC is nothing compared to the big picture.

Then consider that most BP owners wind up with more than one BP becasue they need steel somedays and aluminum on others. Just exactly what is the relevance of having only one BC? Is it kind of like having a complete machine shop with only one adjustable wrench?

Use anything you like everybody, but no one tell me there is some magic in a backplate because it will do everything, or it is saving money because it can be taken right into technical applications.

 

[O-ring]

leadweight once bubbled...
Let me see now,
Many of the backplate guys around here own a Halcyon BP with a Pioneer 36# for $555. Discounts are hard to come by on Halcyon, although it is possible to save a couple of bucks with a FredT BP. The Pioneer is single tank only, so they need an explorer wing for $338, for a total of $893. Typical price for a TP2 with Travel wing $450. Classic wings $200. Aluminum BP and harness $70. Two complete BC's for $720. Saving money, no. Saving closet space, possibly. (It is possible to substitute a Classic wing for the Explorer, but that just gets back to the same price range as two complete rigs. I chose the Halcyon prices as that seems to be what the BP lovers aspire to due to their frequent DIR orientation..)

Now put it in perspective:

Add up the cost of steel doubles with manifold and bands, two din regulators, custom hoses, stage regulators, canister light, exposure protection, cave certification, deco certification, mixed gas certification, helium fills not to mention travel and boat operators. Megabucks and a lot of closet space.

Seems to me like having an extra BC is nothing compared to the big picture.

Then consider that most BP owners wind up with more than one BP becasue they need steel somedays and aluminum on others. Just exactly what is the relevance of having only one BC? Is it kind of like having a complete machine shop with only one adjustable wrench?

Use anything you like everybody, but no one tell me there is some magic in a backplate because it will do everything, or it is saving money because it can be taken right into technical applications.

I'm just not buying that a TPII is that much better for singles..maybe I will have to go try one.

I like my bp/wing and you like a bc for every situation...whatever works for you doesn't necessarily work for me. You keep your closet of BCs and I'll keep my bp, ok?

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Hmm...

I don't seem to fit into either of Rick's groups.

While I do not believe that the BP/wing is the best solution for all divers, I have found it to be the best solution for me and in all conditions. From cold water to warm, whether in a drysuit, 6 mil, or 2 mil shortie, single tank or twins, the BP/wing is far and away better than anything else I have ever used. (My frame of reference would be the top of the line BCs from Oceanic, Seaquest, Aqualung, and Zeagle.) I have never used the TP II, but if Rick recommends it, then I'm sure its fine. (I believe you will find that Rick has good horse sense.)

Noting Leadweight's objections, I must put a vote in for comfort and stability. I have not experienced any discomfort from the plate or harness when wearing a thin shortie. Also, I have not noticed being pushed forward when on the surface even when using different STAs. I find the BP/wing great for warm reef diving.

Is a BP/wing for you? Maybe. Maybe not. I think I would have to know you better to make any kind of recommendation. It is, however, great for me as well as many others.

I think it is good that you have seen some disagreement among the board members on this topic. It keeps things in balance.

SA

 

[ElectricZombie]

I wear my BP/wing for everything because I feel that it is the absolute best possible setup for me. Some don't like the BP and that's fine, they can dive what they like and I'll dive what I like. It is nice to know that what ever type of diving I decide to do, my BP/wing can handle it. I don't have to have multiple BCs for different types of diving, only different sized wings. (I do have an extra BP anyway.) The BP/wing is extremely comfortable to me, more so than any other BC I have tried. To each his own.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

>>Use anything you like everybody, but no one tell me there is some magic in a backplate because it will do everything, or it is saving money because it can be taken right into technical applications.<< Leadweight

I gotta agree about the saving money thing. I suppose one could argue that by skipping the BC step one could save as much as the cost of that BC. But, when that day for ‘tech-transition’ comes, the math might really look something like this:

Let’s say that this imaginary diver bought his/her first set of gear from the Fifth Dimension Online store and that he/she decided on a stainless steel backplate with harness and crotch strap and a 27# Pioneer wing for a total cost of $505. Now that he/she is ready to gear up with doubles he/she already has a backplate and harness. This diver now will spend $338 for a 55# Explorer wing. Compare that to a second diver who first bought a BC and, on transitioning to tech, must spend $457 for a complete BP and 55# wing setup.

Assuming that diver #2's BC cost about the same as diver #1's BP/wing, it seems that diver #1 will spend only about $119 less than diver #2 on the move to tech. Obviously, the savings is significantly less than the cost of a new BC.

No matter how one does the math, Leadweight is right. The bottom line is that going tech is so expensive that even the cost of a new BC is of little consequence.

SA

 

[metridium]

Stephen Ash, that's assuming someone stays entirely with Halcyon, which is a (the?) premium BP brand. It's possible to have lower costs, if that's what you're interested in.

My first BP setup was $250 or so: an aluminum plate, an STA, and a doubles wing (yeah, yeah, I know). If I hadn't wanted a Halcyon setup, I could have simply purchased an SS backplate and used it with the existing wings. Total incremental cost would be $120 or so, for an approximate total outlay of $370.

Of course, that $250 BP was purchased several years ago, so the prices may have changed, or the manufacturers may no longer all be in the BP/W business.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

>>Stephen Ash, that's assuming someone stays entirely with Halcyon, which is a (the?) premium BP brand. It's possible to have lower costs, if that's what you're interested in.<<

I suppose it is possible to get a BP/wing setup for less than $505.
But, it won't be much less...unless you buy used. One can get a BC for less than $500, too.

SA

 

[MrMojo]

Hi Conor ,
Iwas in your same situation a couple of months ago and was concidering 3 options.

BP +wing,CD TBK sports, Transpac II

I tried a BP at my local club it had a set of twin 10's 300 bar and was set up for drysuit so in retrospect with my shortie on not a fair test as it was a bit unstable on my back.
I spoke to Custom diver at the dive show and they were unhelpful and put me of thier gear ,would not let me try it on as it was there for display??
Tried an old transpac from a guy at club and really liked the feel.
I now own a TPII and rec wing which i love as it can grow with your needs and styles , i dive with a single 12/15 and pony in a dry and semi and it is easy to ajust between the two.I know that in the future i will be diving doubles so probably add a plate to the rec wing and not have to sell the lot on ebay.

I am up stoney in the new year and your more than welcome to have ago ,just PM me for any info/help or the best price in uk i did alot of homework .

Hope this helps,

MAL..