The Problem with Science as a Substitute

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...Ethics (or morality if you prefer) is simply the behaviors encoded in our genes written out as intelectual concepts...

Bryan

Unlikely!:rofl3:

This kind of "what if" that you have just stated is clearly outside of the bounds of science. It is more of a philosophy question: "What if our ethics is coded in our genes?" That is something that is currently simply unknown.

I am starting to worry about you, now. Maybe you are a lab worker of some kind. But your credentials as a "scientist" are now seriously in doubt, since you cannot differentiate between ideas, guesses, hypotheses, theories, and B/S! Sorry to put it so bluntly.
 
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I appreciate you putting yourself out there, so to speak, with this. Religion seems to fill a void in people by answering why we are here or what our purpose is. Your revelation seems to be that our goal, or purpose, is the pursuit of love and knowledge resulting in creation. Can you expound further on this?

Can I expound further? I'll try.

The challenge in attempting to explain what I experienced is that I can't even come close through words to the simplicity of the meaning and influence of our lives here. I read once in a book that "we're not human beings having a spiritual experience; we're spiritual beings having a human experience." There may be some truth to that, maybe not, but it sure seems to fit what I experienced.

Imagine for a second that you could feel exactly what another person feels when they interact with you, plus you could know their thoughts during the interaction. If you knew that fact before you said anything, wrote anything, or acted in any way, would it change your behavior? A person who acts from a position of Love would interact very differently than someone who was uncaring, manipulative, prejudiced, or selfish. That's the Love I'm talking about.

The next part is Knowledge. If you're like me you have a pretty good idea of the things you're good at and enjoy, your natural skill set. My natural skill set is very different than my wife's, very different than our friends. That skill set demands my attention, thirsts for knowledge so it can expand and grow. The Knowledge we're talking about in this thread was anchored to science due to the investigative methods they use, but Knowledge could just as easily apply to investments, carpentry, engineering, doctoring, teaching, raising kids, cleaning houses, pouring cement, whatever.

When you express the connected Love I descibed to the Knowledgeable application of your abilities, you create. You create feelings, emotions, peace. You create books, art, and music. You create houses, bridges, and skyscrapers. You create healing, education, and discovery. A person doesn't have to believe in God or religion to express Love, apply Knowledge, and create. God and religious beliefs may help some, may hinder others, but we all have the capacity to do the A+B=C formula.

In the absence of Love, you still create with your Knowledge. Generally you create pain, anguish, fights, 9/11's, scams, sweat-houses, shortages, wars; you get the picture.

What exists today in societies world wide are examples of both Love's application and responses to Love's absence. I was once a military pilot with the skill set and knowledge to kill a million people with the touch of a button, though I cannot confirm nor deny the presence of the weapons to do so. I could not do that job today, but I respect those who make that choice to do so.

We're all incomplete individuals. As long as you're alive and have the mental capacity to think, you can Love, Learn, and create. You don't need a religion or belief to do any of those three. All you need is a desire to participate and the ability to pay attention.

Believe it or not, what you've contributed with your all your creations, how you've applied "you" in a loving way, that's what will be important as you review your life. That's it.

Happy creating.
 
I received one of those "pass it along" e-mails this morning that gives a great example of how A+B=C for one man and his dog.

YouTube - The Amazing Skidboot
 
I'm checking out for a few days. Happy debating.
 
Unlikely!:rofl3:

Oh, but it is. The amount of science probing the genetics underlying our behaviours is immense. And the results of that research is pretty clear. I won't pretend to be surprised that you are unaware of it - you've shown in the apst that you'll go through great lengths to avoid the conclusions science hasn't come from.

This kind of "what if" that you have just stated is clearly outside of the bounds of science. It is more of a philosophy question: "What if our ethics is coded in our genes?" That is something that is currently simply unknown.

Hardly. There are dozens of genes known to influence general behaviours such as mothering, social hierarchism, violence, and so forth. Likewise, most social behaviours are inheritable, which has fairly obvious connotations...

Some of this work has been used as the basis of criminal defences - successfully.

I am starting to worry about you, now. Maybe you are a lab worker of some kind. But your credentials as a "scientist" are now seriously in doubt, since you cannot differentiate between ideas, guesses, hypotheses, theories, and B/S! Sorry to put it so bluntly.

Typical - shoot the messenger. But given your history in past threads to be completely unable to differentiate between science and myth, I'll take it as a complement that you don't think I know anything about science. I'd hate to think you'd lump me in with all that mumbo jumbo BS you posted in the creation/evolution thread.

At the end of the day I have done nothing other than describe the evidence collected by my peers. As for my own credentials, well lets just say that I've spent the last few months travelling all over the world on other labs dimes simply to present my most recent work.

You, on the other hand, merely have insults.

Bryan
 
Oh, but it is. The amount of science probing the genetics underlying our behaviours is immense. And the results of that research is pretty clear.

Hardly. There are dozens of genes known to influence general behaviours such as mothering, social hierarchism, violence, and so forth. Likewise, most social behaviours are inheritable, which has fairly obvious connotations...

Given your history in past threads to be completely unable to differentiate between science and myth, I'll take it as a complement that you don't think I know anything about science. I'd hate to think you'd lump me in with all that mumbo jumbo BS you posted in the creation/evolution thread, At the end of the day I have numerous scientific publications, including numerous primary papers and a few textbook chapters, to backup my expertise.

You, on the other hand, merely have insults.

Bryan

Sorry, Bryan, but I am going to have to relegate you to the mute heap.

A true scientist knows the difference between ideas, guesses, hypotheses, theories, and B/S. You seem to be quite confused by even your own B/S, which is definitely not science.

Thus you seem to be either still in high school, and dreaming about that science lab job, or else somthing is definitely wrong about your claims. Right now, I am thinking high-school drop out, and truck driver. A fine profession to be sure, but definitely not science.

Sorry to impune your honor, but your statements simply do not add up, regarding science.

Good luck with your scuba, though.
 
Sorry, Bryan, but I am going to have to relegate you to the mute heap.

Gee, I'm heart-broken. But I notice that once again, instead of providing evidence that I am wrong all you managed to do was throw around a few insults.

A true scientist knows the difference between ideas, guesses, hypotheses, theories, and B/S.

Actually, true scientists use existing data, logic and experimentation to determine what is true and what is BS.

Only religious fanatics claim to magically know the truth.

You seem to be quite confused by even your own B/S, which is definitely not science.


And where am I confused? Oh wait, I'm not. Your just confused because facts are disagreeing with your faith.

Thus you seem to be either still in high school, and dreaming about that science lab job, or else somthing is definitely wrong about your claims. Right now, I am thinking high-school drop out, and truck driver. A fine profession to be sure, but definitely not science.

Ahh, more insults. Guess that means you have no actual content to argue about. Here's a of paper which provide a basic background on the scientific findings vis-a-vis our genetics and our behaviour and how that translates into ethics/morality:

Sexual selection for moral virtues. [Q Rev Biol. 2007] - PubMed Result

Two good books on the subject are:

Moral Minds: How Nature Designed Our Universal Sense of Right and Wrong
M.D. Hauser

Primates and Philosophers: How Morality Evolved
Frans De Waal


Sorry to impune your honor, but your statements simply do not add up, regarding science.

Given your continual insults, I think the only person you impuned was yourself.

Bryan
 
Can we please keep the posts insult-free and only criticise people's ideas not themselves as people? I don't want this thread locked like the other one as I find these topics really interesting :)
 

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