The pony taboo

[Bottomfeeder Brodie]

Ok guys, heres my observations. I've read many many discussions on many boards about pony bottles. I've watched many home videos of diving adventures and have also read all of the DAN annual reports on diving accidents.Why is it that the vast majority of divers ( observation) don't carry pony bottles?

Almost every diving death in the DAN reports could have been avoided if a correctly sized pony were availible when needed! Not the "spare death" (as I see they are called) tanks with the consolidated reg, but a 19, 30 or 40 cu/ft tank. The observed discussions on other boards are that most divers totally rely on a buddy to breathe with. The reports indicate that either the buddy was separated due to currents or viz problems or air sharing at depth resulted in both divers injured when the buddy also ran out. My theory is that if my air is low, so will my buddy! This senerio would be if for some reason I forgot my training and didnt watch my comp or gauges.

Others have remarked on the fact that a pony ( adequately sized) is expensive and cumbersome. ie: in the way. Most videos I have watched show divers diving wrecks like the Speigel Grove with just one tank at 100 ft. At 4 ATA I dont think 10 breaths from a spare air would be any good to me in an emergency. Granted the reports show the deaths of divers from the millions of dives every year making the fatality rate very very low but you know what they say. It only takes one accident to kill you! What really bothers me is that many instructors and veterans have indicated to me that having an adequately sized pony would keep me from being immortalized on the ( Darwin Award Network) annual report. This is, to me, an unprofessional and callus statement and used to really anger me to hear it but I see what they are trying to do. Scare me into being safe. Accidents happen and no one is immune!

My point is that what is the big taboo about carrying a pony? If I died and had a greater power offering me my life back for 400 dollars, I would take it! So I'll save time and just spend the money now! From what I have read so far on this forom, you guys are the most professional and intellegent group I've seen. So an opinion as to pro's and cons would really help me to understand this controversy. So I'll start with my opinion. Ponies should be standard on all solo dives and any buddy dive beyond 50 ft. My life is valuable to me and I would love to see DAN publish and empty report every year! Any takers?

Oh, my history is that I am a rookie with 15 lifetime dives in 6 months and doing my advanced class on the 19th of May. My wife and I dive in every weekend with 6 grand worth of equipment straped on. Being an auto mechanic in a bad economy and having 7 kids, the expense of the equipment just about killed me but my equipment won't kill me and I'll be here for Xmas! So take it easy on the rookie as I consider posting on this forum my means to educate myself.

 

[spectrum]

First of all I have to question your DAN quoted statement that "Almost every diving death in the DAN reports could have been avoided if a correctly sized pony were available when needed!"

OOA incidents do occur. Catastrophic free flows at cold depths do happen along with other failures and there surely are cases where an independent redundant personal air source would make the difference. For the most part well maintained gear does have a high reliability factor and if one plans and monitors their gas supply they are almost always fine. Yes I said almost......

There are also many accidents where divers are found with ample breathable air and the root cause is not air supply. So with that said we need to ratchet down the universal salvation aspect of having a pony bottle.

Many divers do dive effectively as buddy pairs, relying on each other for redundant air. We can go on with the myriad of ways in which the buddy system can break down due to conditions and diver error. In any case many see this as an acceptable risk level.

If having a pony bottle would offer such a dramatic risk reduction then I would expect it to be a cornerstone of rescue diver training where self rescue & incident avoidance are major topics. In my NAUI training it was a passing blurb.

There are recreational situations such as deeper dives or solo diving that begin to tip the balance of risk as outlined above. We all have different levels of comfort or willingness to assume risk.

Cost is a very real factor. As a bare minimum you do need a cylinder with a first stage and second stage. You can sling it with a trivial amount of hardware but the cost of admission is hard to get under $300. On top of that you need to expect maintenance on the cylinder and regulator. Keep in mind that many are diving some level of rental equipment and/or have a long wish list of other dive goodies. Often a diver will upgrade a primary regulator and relegate that to pony duty when they get an extra cylinder.

I'm new to diving with a pony. At 300 dives I see myself approaching some situations where it would be a good thing to have. The cost was not trivial but it was the right expenditure at the right time. I do not feel that the previous 300 dives were made with undue risk.

Frankly as a rookie with 15 dives I hope you and your wife are not making dives where there is real need for a pony bottle. After it's all said and done it's true that you can't be too safe and if you have the rigs the by all means use them.

I don't think there is any taboo about ponies. I do think that in most cases divers do not see the need and dive accordingly. I have buddies who have been running ponies and I don't think any less of them if that is what you mean.

I must ask.... does you wife have a pony bottle as well?

Dive safe,
Pete

 

[Bottomfeeder Brodie]

I must ask.... does you wife have a pony bottle as well?

Yes she does. A little 19 cu/ft . I will be carrying a 30 because i'm a hoover. We havent been in any situations where a pony was necessary yet, but I am preparing our gear for our upcoming AOW class. I admit I am a safety finatic and minimize any risk to an extreme. I just never understood why a pony isnt "standard" equipment for our life support. I guess we all have our own level of aceptable risk, as you stated. I am not quailified to preach its use being a total rookie. Just seems to be a good idea to me considering other sports have simaliar contigencies that are used even less than a pony would in our sport yet they still mandate its use on an unofficial level. Some frown on it and others have been quoted to say its sexy to wear one!

 

[Bottomfeeder Brodie]

oh...the staement of deaths that could have been avoided in the DAN reports. were my opinion only in reference to the unfortunates that misjudged air usage at depths or had equipment failures ie: free flows.

 

[Diver Dennis]

No taboo really. You'll find a lot of divers on the board who dive with them but here in Asia I have seen maybe one or two. Vacation divers don't use them because of the cost and hassle of bringing their own and the resorts don't rent them because there is not enough demand. As Pete pointed out, at this stage you should not be diving depths that require a pony but there is nothing wrong with being safe. It's a good point in your dive career to get comfortable using them since that is the route you've chosen.

For deeper dives we use doubles here.

 

[shoredivr]

Dive as you wish, just be sure you can deploy the reg from the 30/19cuft. tanks. A redundant supply of gas is a good thing up here in cold water land.

If you want to stir the pot a little, ask "tank valve open or closed?" (I'd say pressurize, close valve, repressurize at depth, close valve, this way you can't accidentally lose gas from your slung tank, plus you keep the muscle memory for opening and closing the valve. YMMV).

Oh, and if you really want a kerfuffle, ask "Pony: slung or back mounted?"
(I'd say slung, can see the valve and what's going on with it (ie, leaks) YMMV)

 

[Diver Dennis]

Also ask about strapping a spare snorkel to the pony for redundancy...

Wait, I'll do that on the snorkel thread running right now...

Some of us divers are a bit nutty as you may have noticed...

 

[dpbishop]

I don't think there is a taboo about pony bottles here, but there are some strong opinions. Here's mine.

There are many approaches to limiting the dangers inherent in diving; a pony is just one of them. If you only dive within no-decompression limits and avoid overhead situations you should always be able to make an emergency assent. I've done it from 80 ft. If you have a good buddy and practice your buddy skills, a redundant air supply provides only a minor increase in safety, and, no matter how you mount it, it provides a significant increase in drag. This leads to greater effort, greater air consumption and greater risk of entanglement.

I bought a pony because I dive for lobster, usually solo. The greatest cause of OA situations for me is not equipment failure but my tendency to stretch the dive "just a little longer" because I'm sure there is one more bug just around the next rock. The pony gives me peace of mind. I always dive with it now because I think it's best to dive the same configuration. (unless the situation demands special equipment). The only time I have deployed was in a non emergency situation.

 

[Bottomfeeder Brodie]

spare snorkel ! Too funny! I don't go where I am not qualified which is why I'm taking my AOW with wreck diving on the 19th but when I do take the pony along it will be slung and pressurized. Valve off. Nutty? I hope so. I'm the rock climbing, 60 mph skiing, drag racer type. Not the petrified overly cautious type but I do believe people can do some crazy things as long as they calculate risk variables and do dumb things safely! Education is a great life saver which is why I'm here. To get one!

 

[spectrum]

Yes she does. A little 19 cu/ft. I will be carrying a 30 because i'm a hoover.

I don't know where you got your sizes but you may find this post intersting.

I thnk you'll see that you are diving some very adequate back-up gear based on the numbers

We havent been in any situations where a pony was necessary yet, but I am preparing our gear for our upcoming AOW class.

No body prepares to be in such a situation. That's why it's a risk assesment.

I admit I am a safety finatic and minimize any risk to an extreme. I just never understood why a pony isnt "standard" equipment for our life support. I guess we all have our own level of aceptable risk, as you stated.

And that's the beauty of it all. You have made an informed decision based on your own values.

I am not quailified to preach its use being a total rookie. Just seems to be a good idea to me considering other sports have simaliar contigencies that are used even less than a pony would in our sport yet they still mandate its use on an unofficial level. Some frown on it and others have been quoted to say its sexy to wear one!

Dedpending where your diving takes you there may be situations where boats will require a redundant air supply for certain off shore dives. these are not to extreme depths and are not penetrations but they represent situations where combination of depth, visibility and current raise havoc with the buddy system and mandate true self sufficiency. Make it a point to drill the deployment of your pony regulators in multiple scenarios.

Let me wish you and your wife lot's of safe diving. Be sure to carry your vigilance to other forms of safety gear appropriate for the diving you will do. Things like a safety sausage or a DSM & spool can be of real value in more routine situations and perhaps that's why many divers opt for those first.

Pete