The Philosophy of Diver Training

[MXGratefulDiver]

I would be interested in the perspective of others.

Well ... since you asked ...

My perspective is that this conversation has degenerated into a pissing contest. Both of you seem to be overstating your position, and very little useful information is coming out of it.

Perhaps it's time to bury this horse and close the thread.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TCDiver1]

Perhaps we can get Walter and Thal's take on what you have been saying and the way you've been saying it.

Now that would be a fair and balanced thing to do ..... I wonder who's position they would agree with?

I agree with Bob, this has just turned into a pissin contest like this topic usually does.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I don't excuse arrogance in any conversation . . .

Irony makes life worth living

I have attempted to get people to outline these requirements by agency so all readers may understand what is really required from the agency perspective. I'm happy to let the cards fall where them may. The truth shall set us free!

That's such bs. You've attempted to dissect and discredit PADI training at every turn, using 20 year old knowledge to bludgeon current instructors, including those who are well respected on this board for their knowledge and commitment. You have applied none of those same tactics to the very few posts around other agencies.

You are clearly not happy to let the cards fall where they may. You are interested in a pre-determined outcome, and started the thread with that goal in mind.

 

[Crush]

My perspective is that this conversation has degenerated into a pissing contest.

I haven't followed this post in some time. I felt that at around reply #370 in the thread the posters had fallen into a comfortable pattern of attack and defence. Some attacks were personal.

At around post #500 the attacks had become routinely personal.

Since about post #500 through to present there has been little improvement.

I have noted that the one faction is far more personal (and far less disciplined) in their attacks than the other. In reading the posts I have formulated an idea of which SB users I could enjoy a beer with , and which I would be best advised to avoid.

 

[Walter]

Perhaps we can get Walter and Thal's take on what you have been saying and the way you've been saying it. I would be interested in the perspective of others.

I think you both need to give it a rest. Neither of you is listening to the other. Nothing good will come of continuing this discussion.

Now that would be a fair and balanced thing to do ..... I wonder who's position they would agree with?

Yeah, my opinion is sure to be biased, after all Pete is a friend and dive buddy, I've never met Wayne.

 

[DCBC]

That's such bs.

Actually it's not. Perhaps you haven't read post 768. I've tried to find a way forward. http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5101507-post768.html

Prior to this in post 753, I requested "Agency instructors, please add additional agencies as appropriate and add and/or modify so as to insure accuracy." http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5100735-post753.html

Perhaps you didn't read those threads, but it's much easier to just throw stones than engage in the discussion.

You've attempted to dissect and discredit PADI training at every turn, using 20 year old knowledge to bludgeon current instructors, including those who are well respected on this board for their knowledge and commitment. You have applied none of those same tactics to the very few posts around other agencies.

It seems that you are another one that makes claims without any substance. Where have I bludgeoned any current well respected instructors on this board for their knowledge or commitment? Perhaps you can post the specifics, or refrain from confusing the facts.

What I have attempted to do, is look at the differences in the standards of each agency. If PADI stands out, it does so because of its requirements, in-particular:

ACUC, CMAS, SEI, NAUI

Must be able to swim and pass an in-water assessment
Buddy Breathing allowed (required in some agencies)
Rescue/Recovery of Submerged Diver required

PADI

Must pass an in-water assessment
Buddy Breathing prohibited
Rescue of Submerged Diver prohibited

Perhaps you feel that this is incorrect? Please clarify this for everyone to understand.

 

[TechBlue]

You know, I would pit my divers against your divers skill for skill if that were possible. You would probably be surprised at how quickly an excellent diver can be produced if you follow some fun and intuitive techniques. But hey, if you are comfortable with your way: have at it. You won't hear a word from me until you start to bash others for teaching what they are comfortable with.

Fair enough Pete, nuff said.
It would be quite interesting to run two classes simultaneously and after the class put both classes in the water together as a base point of comparison, of course until the **** hits the fan you don't find out how a poorly learned skill leads to poor performance. But it would be good to see general diving skills, awareness, self sufficiency and the ability to dive under varying conditions, all of which we can offer here. Fancy putting a trip together to Mallorca? The weather is finally starting to warm up.

 

[Walter]

It has come to my attention that my previous post may have been misunderstood.

TCDiver1 was implying I would be biased in DCBC's favor because we share a philosophy about dive training. I was pointing out that others might see it the opposite way because NetDoc and I are friends while DCBC and I have never met.

To make my position clear, I agree with almost everything DCBC has said about training and the philosophy of teaching people to dive. I agree with a few points here and there that NetDoc has made, but for the most part we disagree about dive training.

Pete (NetDoc) has some excellent points about not making personal attacks. I don't see that Wayne (DCBC) has actually made any personal attacks, but Pete is still correct that we shouldn't be making them. What Pete misses is that he is often quite guilty of making those personal attacks. For quite a long time I pointed out his elitist comments were personal attacks. He finally got it and stopped using the term. Instead of stopping his attacks, he's merely substituted the term POV warrior for elitist. The attacks continue, but in a different form.

I think this was an excellent topic and parts of the discussion were interesting and informative. At this point, it is no longer productive. Wayne continues to make his points and Pete continues to attack him as a result. There will be no resolve.

 

[Thalassamania]

It has come to my attention that my previous post may have been misunderstood.

TCDiver1 was implying I would be biased in DCBC's favor because we share a philosophy about dive training. I was pointing out that others might see it the opposite way because NetDoc and I are friends while DCBC and I have never met.

To make my position clear, I agree with almost everything DCBC has said about training and the philosophy of teaching people to dive. I agree with a few points here and there that NetDoc has made, but for the most part we disagree about dive training.

Pete (NetDoc) has some excellent points about not making personal attacks. I don't see that Wayne (DCBC) has actually made any personal attacks, but Pete is still correct that we shouldn't be making them. What Pete misses is that he is often quite guilty of making those personal attacks. For quite a long time I pointed out his elitist comments were personal attacks. He finally got it and stopped using the term. Instead of stopping his attacks, he's merely substituted the term POV warrior for elitist. The attacks continue, but in a different form.

I think this was an excellent topic and parts of the discussion were interesting and informative. At this point, it is no longer productive. Wayne continues to make his points and Pete continues to attack him as a result. There will be no resolve.

I concur.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Perhaps you feel that this is incorrect? Please clarify this for everyone to understand.

How about this . . . prove you're not here to simply find fault with PADI. Spend a few dozen posts dissecting and critiquing the faults you find in other agency standards. Or is every other agency perfect so you only need to spend your time attacking PADI?

I'll check back tonight after I try to kill of some students to see if you bother.