The Philosophy of Diver Training

[Walter]

Can you tell a lie and not be a liar?

No.

If you believe in the lie, then you are not actively trying to lie and ergo are not a liar.

In that case, you have not told a lie, you have made a mistake.

One could easily say he called me arrogant in post 563

He did.

 

[The Chairman]

PADI most certainly does meet RSTC standards. I don't think anyone has said or implied they don't. I slso don't think such a distinction proves anything. RSTC standards are not standards that agencies had to raise their own standards to meet. They are a combination of the lowest standards in each category of all the member agencies. RSTC standards are a joke. By the way, NAUI's swimming standards do not meet RSC standards.



At the time you were ready to become an instructor, I believe you posted something slightly different about your reasons in a forum that is no longer visible to the general membership of ScubaBoard.

I'll go check, but I first checked into becoming a PADI instructor. I met the man here in Orlando and started looking elsewhere quickly.

I took you, MB and another guy on your first dive in Blue Spring. MB tried to get behind me and I would not let him... I was a good DM. It was there that I was first asked to become a NAUI instructor. I did feel that the NAUI system was better than the PADI system for various reasons, and I might have taken a swipe or two at PADI here on ScubaBoard. Call me a reformed basher if you must. I have seen some excellent divers come out of PADI classes. I have seen poor ones come out of almost every agency as well.

 

[Jax]

I'm guessing you mean the statement about being called a liar and a coward.

You added your thanks to the one in which he was called a liar.

Rob apologized in a later post.

As for calling him a coward, I'm pretty sure I read that post, but I can't find it right now.

No, you are not correct. I do not know why you would have made that assumption.

I quoted the post to which I was asking for sources. DCBC made absolute statements. I could not find those statements in any of the PADI books I borrowed from a friend. If these are facts, they may be cited by manual and page. Otherwise, the statements are opinions presented as facts . . . a logic flaw.

 

[JeffG]

PADI training does not "Fail" students. It is allowable to with-hold certification until mastery is achieved. A subtle, but real difference. Students are not required to retake the entire course for not mastering certain components. They are required to demonstrate mastery of all performance requirements.

po ta toe ---- po tat o

I understand that.

But to answer the intent of the question:

OW Dive 2 Performance Requirements, the very first required standard is "At the surface: 1. Plan dive with dive computer or RDP"

So yes, you can. Indeed, you must!

With a dive computer?...so you don't need altitude tables.

RDP by itself isn't altitude either.

 

[The Chairman]

PADI is getting away from tables at the OW level. Good for them.

 

[DCBC]

It is perfectly OK for a PADI instructor to teach elements of the rescue course in an OW course, to the extent a student is qualified to perform those skills.

Thanks for your response King. As this wasn't the case years ago, I would be interested in when PADI started allowing rescue (u/w recovery of conscious/unconscious diver) into the OW program? Can the instructor test/evaluate this as a mandatory requirement of the OW program (required for certification at his/her election)?

If one is training in an altitude environment, then additional focus on altitude diving is required by the course standards as the students must participate in planning their OW dives. As the course instruction is moving to using PDC's instead of tables, altitude diving as separate instruction is less of an issue within the course standards. This is another hotly debated topic, but is not a change that is unique to PADI. It is actually something of a response to changes made by other agencies.

How about tide tables? If these are required for safety in the local diving area, can the instructor test/evaluate on these as mandatory for certification? Again, when was this changed?

No, it is specifically disallowed. It is a skill taught at higher levels in the PADI system.

It was my understanding that in 2010, all buddy breathing was discontinued. Is it still valid at the DM level under the new Standards?

I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but this is a change of direction from the past (an excellent one I might add). If you could post the specifics from PADI Standards it would be appreciated.

When I was censored by PADI HQ, I didn't think anything in the Standards prohibited these things as well. It was pointed out to me that unless it's specifically mentioned in Standards by name, it's not covered. There was something in the fine print of PADI insurance as well.

I think this fell along the line of what Peter Guy was saying; as you can embellish the standards to a degree, but can't add anything to it that's not specifically mentioned. Thanks again for your insight.

 

[Kingpatzer]

po ta toe ---- po tat o

I understand that.



With a dive computer?...so you don't need altitude tables.

RDP by itself isn't altitude either.

As has been noted, PADI is moving towards teaching dive planning with computers. This is a standard change that many aren't happy with. However, it is up to the instructor as to how that planning is to proceed. And the resulting plan must be appropriate to the conditions.

You can quibble with the wording, but the intent is clear: you must be able to correctly plan a safe dive.

 

[TechBlue]

It would be nice if instructors had more time to teach and the customers would pay more to them to do the "extra" instruction, but I believe a lot of the drive behind this is the "one in a lifetime" style of diver.

I can just imagine the mayhem it would cause if golf pros started offering to teach classes for the "occasional golfer"

 

[JeffG]

You can quibble with the wording, but the intent is clear: you must be able to correctly plan a safe dive.

Its not a quibble when you say that you can fail someone for not being able to use Altitude tables and yet the standards allow the diver to use something else.

You can't have it both ways.

Like Diver0001

Its a standards issue, but you will blame the instructor.

 

[JeffG]

I can just imagine the mayhem it would cause if golf pros started offering to teach classes for the "occasional golfer"

and whats your point?

Golf and scuba and not even close to be used as a comparison.

or are you trying to be funny?