The Philosophy of Diver Training

[Walter]

Source of your statements, please? I cannot find them -- perhaps you are re- or para-phrasing.

I'm guessing you mean the statement about being called a liar and a coward.

You added your thanks to the one in which he was called a liar.

DCBC repeatedly tells people that PADI instructors are required to teach to minimum standards

-- a lie. PADI instructors are required to prepare students for local conditions, not for "ideal" conditions.

DCBC tells people that PADI instructors are unable to add necessary material to the course

-- a lie. PADI instructors are required to prepare students for local conditions even if something in the course material is missing.

DCBC tells people that PADI instructors are required to certify every student that achieves minimum standards.

-- a lie. PADI instructors are required to train their students to local conditions. If they cannot meet your expectations as instructor then you must halt the training, not certify them.

Rob apologized in a later post.

I apologize because I intended to confront you with your 1/2 truths, not to insult you.

I also agree with Netdoc. If you're not aware that they're 1/2 truths then you're right. It can't be lying. I think lying is a deliberate act.

As for calling him a coward, I'm pretty sure I read that post, but I can't find it right now.

 

[JeffG]

If one is training in an altitude environment, then additional focus on altitude diving is required by the course standards as the students must participate in planning their OW dives.

But he is asking if it is "testable"...i.e. Can I fail the student if he/she doesn't get it.

 

[DCBC]

NetDoc, Just to give you a heads-up, as you are the owner of the Board I can't put you on my ignore list, although I've tried, but the system wont allow it. Don't think that I'll be reading any of your posts, as I've had more than enough of your arrogance. From the e-mails that I've received, so have others.

 

[The Chairman]

NetDoc, Just to give you a heads-up, as you are the owner of the Board I can't put you on my ignore list, although I've tried, but the system wont allow it. Don't think that I'll be reading any of your posts, as I've had more than enough of your arrogance. From the e-mails that I've received, so have others.

Your loss, not mine. You can always request a mod to have me placed on your forced ignore list. Obviously, if you can't take the heat... stop fanning the flames!

 

[JeffG]

As for calling him a coward, I'm pretty sure I read that post, but I can't find it right now.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5092741-post518.html

 

[The Chairman]

But he is asking if it is "testable"...i.e. Can I fail the student if he/she doesn't get it.

If they can't safely dive in their local environment, then yes, you can fail the student.

 

[The Chairman]

I'm guessing you mean the statement about being called a liar and a coward.

You added your thanks to the one in which he was called a liar.



Rob apologized in a later post.



As for calling him a coward, I'm pretty sure I read that post, but I can't find it right now.

Can you tell a lie and not be a liar? Certainly. If you believe in the lie, then you are not actively trying to lie and ergo are not a liar. No one has called him a liar.

As for him being a coward, I said: "One can take umbrage where one wants, but it's the coward's way to discuss issues." He can wear the shoe if it fits, but I did not call him a coward. That's a huge extrapolation/inference on his part. There has been no name calling here.

One could easily say he called me arrogant in post 563, and he did so FAR MORE than anyone has called him a liar or a coward. Obviously, anyone who calls him on his shenanigans is arrogant. Go figure!

 

[Walter]

The RSTC and the WRSTC set minimum standards for dive training in the US and in the World. I don't know of a single agency, member or not, who fails to meet or exceed their standards and that includes PADI. DCBC has yet to show that they do not meet these standards.

PADI most certainly does meet RSTC standards. I don't think anyone has said or implied they don't. I slso don't think such a distinction proves anything. RSTC standards are not standards that agencies had to raise their own standards to meet. They are a combination of the lowest standards in each category of all the member agencies. RSTC standards are a joke. By the way, NAUI's swimming standards do not meet RSC standards.

You might wonder why I am not a PADI instructor and it mostly boils down to personalities. In actuality, I made it through Dive Master within the PADI system but I could not stomach the gentleman wanting to make me a PADI instructor here in Orlando.

At the time you were ready to become an instructor, I believe you posted something slightly different about your reasons in a forum that is no longer visible to the general membership of ScubaBoard.

 

[JeffG]

If they can't safely dive in their local environment, then yes, you can fail the student.

Does it say that? (In the standards?)

I know that my instructor taught us the altitude adjustments for tables for our OW dives. (Done in Jasper AB...4000ft elevation) But fail someone or use it as an excuse to fail someone???...That just doesn't sound right. (It didn't happen..so I have no way of knowing.)

I know that he didn't give out an Adv OW card, but the student wasn't able to go past 60ft and do "a skill" (not sure what the skill was for the dive).

Sometimes I wonder why I'm in this thread. LOL I don't have the standards and plus I don't think the dive industry is that bad. It would be nice if instructors had more time to teach and the customers would pay more to them to do the "extra" instruction, but I believe a lot of the drive behind this is the "one in a lifetime" style of diver.

 

[Kingpatzer]

But he is asking if it is "testable"...i.e. Can I fail the student if he/she doesn't get it.

PADI training does not "Fail" students. It is allowable to with-hold certification until mastery is achieved. A subtle, but real difference. Students are not required to retake the entire course for not mastering certain components. They are required to demonstrate mastery of all performance requirements.

But to answer the intent of the question:

OW Dive 2 Performance Requirements, the very first required standard is "At the surface: 1. Plan dive with dive computer or RDP"

So yes, you can. Indeed, you must!