The Other PADI problem

[Michael Schlink]

Here's a question for everyone to chime in on, just how much should a DM make working at a shop?
Now or course there are many different jobs for DM's to do. Landlocked shop DM's are usually used as teaching assistants and work around the store,maintaining equipment etc.
Then you have the DM's that work on boats taking divers and students out on the water. So what is the expected pay scale for a DM or Inst. working at a shop??
Certainly the location of the shop will have some influence, as cost of living will play into it.
But if many think that a DM isn't getting paid enough, how much is that job worth?

 

[oly5050user]

Here's a question for everyone to chime in on, just how much should a DM make working at a shop?
Now or course there are many different jobs for DM's to do. Landlocked shop DM's are usually used as teaching assistants and work around the store,maintaining equipment etc.
Then you have the DM's that work on boats taking divers and students out on the water. So what is the expected pay scale for a DM or Inst. working at a shop??
Certainly the location of the shop will have some influence, as cost of living will play into it.
But if many think that a DM isn't getting paid enough, how much is that job worth?

working at a shop?? depends on what the shop wants to pay for unskilled labor..what are the job duties at store??sales?cleaning? repair bench? each has its own set skills are paid that way..the more the employee can do the more they can expect to be paid..Most facilities employ instructors at owsi level as a minimum..

 

[The Chairman]

It has been oft said that the best way to make a million in this business is to start with two!

The problem with our industry is that we have used instruction as a loss leader for SO LONG, that the consumer simply expects it. This is far tougher on the independant instructor who has nothing for his instruction to lead to! Shops are gear sales driven instead of instruction driven where in reality, they need to be a mixture of the two. Charge a fair price for instruction. Don't use it to drive the gear side of the business. It's better to certify FEWER and spend more time with them and produce a superior diver and make about the same, then to certify everybody's Aunt Matilda on a whim.

 

[RonFrank]

Why would they? They have a constant flow of DM's in training that can and do help with classes. So why would they actually PAY someone when in fact they are getting PAID by the DM canidates to help.

I think this also has a LOT to do with the instructors share of the pie. I have not actually asked any of the instructors what they make, but not ONE does instruction as a full time profession. Some do work full time with the LDS, but they are managing other area's, and do the instructor thing on the side.

I know my AOW instructor does not want other instructors teaching the same type of class with her when then go down to do CO dives at the hole, or even locally in summer. If there are 30 OW students, she will do three classes, and ALL the instruction with the help of four DM's in training. This butters her bread even if I'm not sure how she handles doing six to nine CO dives with three different OW classes in one day.

Our LDS is contract labor unless you work FT with the LDS. So most all instructors are contract, and I'm guessing they are not getting rich.

I agree that a big part of the problem lies with the LDS. They have no interest in paying instructors well. I think some of those instructors just instruct because 1) they like it, and 2) they get some serious discounts on travel. For the more senior and bread making instructors, they do trips for free to do CO diving in places like COZ, Bahamas, Belize, Bonaire, etc.... Of course they have to spend part of their dive time training, but they generally get in two or more days of diving. They can also lead trips where there is no instruction, but I'm guessing that those trips are hard won. One Instructor indicated that free trips leading to places like Fuji would require about five years of hard work at the LDS before one would even be considered. Seeems to me paying would be a lot less work, and more cost effective if one has other ways to earn a buck.

 

[cuddlefish]

Why would they? They have a constant flow of DM's in training that can and do help with classes. So why would they actually PAY someone when in fact they are getting PAID by the DM canidates to help.

This really depends on the situation. DM's in training are, first and foremost, students themselves. Dive centers and instructors need to be very careful in how they treat their DM students and in what capacity they use them to help with classes. They are not allowed to evaluate student skill performance or independently supervise students. If an instructor is doing an excellent job, he/she will find that having a DM student with them is actually more work. The instructor should be constantly supervising and teaching both the open water students and the DM student at the same time.

That being said, there's not much harm in having DM students help with hauling gear, etc. I emphasize the word "help". At my local dive center (no, I do not own this dive center), there is a policy that DM students are not to be treated as tanks slaves...they are to be treated like students.

As for a dive center that runs guided dive trips...then obviously there is a need to hire Divemasters.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

I am a PADI diver, and selected PADI for the high quality of their course material and the recognition. Even dive shops that teach other courses all know what you are talking about if you say you are PADI AOW.

You mean how it's very possible that padi aow divers have never done a single dive without an instructor yet?

I'm not going to put down the entire program but let's be honest, padi divers aren't looked up to by anyone. To be admired would be to display actual advanced diving skills, the card means little.

 

[LSDeep]

after all - and thats not padi, but diving biz specific - the pay sucks (exemptions are happen, but not the rule). and i agree with the initial post, if you earn less than a burgerflipper at mc donalds, you need to ask yourself - is it worth it (no doubt in other biz's too)!there is an old saying in our biz: most instr. dont get out of teaching diving because of the money, but because of the lack of it.
it might be about high time for cert. agencies to see this problem and do sth about it, if they dont work towards a serious crash. like min. wage re-enforcements and the works. as they point out so nicely it is a highly rewarding career (with a *****load of responsebilities) and a lot of investment (money and dedication) from the person. the usual response of any agency is, when it comes to money / pay complaints - thats not us, but you and your employer. well, as i see it - as long as a dc is affiliated with a cert. agency - it comes down to me (as the individual member) and you (as the agency) that believes we take membership fees from both sides but do ****** all to enforce min. working standards.
i could go on about that forever, anyway - it wont make a change here.

happy bubbles

Lsdeep

(admin < http://diveproinfo.proboards25.com >)

 

[12voltman]

Anyone considering becoming a scuba instructor / divemaster with the intention of trying to earn a living should spend more than a little time considering all the aspects of the endeavor. There's more to it than what they send you in the brochures and marketing, and most don't find out what they've gotten themselves into until they're out on some remote location working for less than they thought, and working a lot harder than they ever imagined.

Scuba schools are like factories turning out dm's and instructors because the turnover and burnout is so high in the profession, and burnout is high for a reason. Trying to make ends meet living in a remote / tropical / perhaps foreign location usually requires shared accommodations (read no real privacy, quiet time in your own place), and often a reliance on those you have to share a place with in order to just scrape by. And you can only hope that you will be working for a quality dive shop that has high standards and updates their equipment on a regular basis. Finding a good operation to work for isn't easy, but crucial to feeling like what you've got yourself into is even worth it despite the low wage. Many of my friends began to feel trapped in their locations because they were locked into a contract, and couldn't save enough to pay for what is usually an expensive ticket home. My experiences have proven to be less painfull, but I tried to observe and learn from the mistakes of others. One thing I learned is the money is better on a liveaboard, but not because the wage is higher. It's because you don't have anywhere to spend your money. But you give up even more personal space and have even less time to yourself, so everything is a trade off.

Individually you have to decide what your quality of life issues are and what you're willing to give up in order to send your buddies postcards with palm trees and brag that you're living in _____ (insert your own personal Margaritaville here). It can be a good life but a lot of things have to go right. That's why there's such a high burnout rate, and so many newbies in the pipeline to replace those leaving. Just browsing the PADI employment board can be an education in itself if you pay attention to what the adds say and how often the same people advertise for help.

I didn't get into scuba to make a lot of money, but I've been very fortunate that I put myself into a right time, right place situation and found a scuba job unrelated to being anything other than an experienced diver. I'm now working in a Vegas hotel water show as a maintenance technician in a million gallon showroom pool. And the pay is great, so you can make good money in the profession, but it's usually not where you think it's going to be.

Everybodies mileage varies according to their own goals and expectations. I'm a little long winded, but it's easy to oversimplify and generalize about what are actually complex situations and circumstances. Hopefully we all find what we're looking for.

12v