The "other" end of the DIR question

[Boogie711]

People have to make choices in their lives, and I doubt that anyone can afford to invest in every choice available. There is the CCR route, SCR route, the sidemount route, the OMS route, there is your GUE-DIR/Hacyon route, there is the DUI route, and Zeagle has a route of their own (sheriff's depts prefer this one, if you look closely to the TV news), and for the truly economically challenged there is the Oceanic route.

GUE-DIR/Halcyon was momentarily probably the best cave diving route. That is, until the sidemount alternative came along.

There are just a lot of choices. They all have their place.

Excuse me Indigo - would you mind explaining for the benefit of us all just what the "DUI" route is, and how that would differ from the Zeagle route, for example?

And furthermore, since this is twice that you've highlighted the use of sidemount in caves, would you mind telling us about your cave diving experiences, and how beneficial side mount was to you in those particular occasions?

Thank you.

 

[HammerNoMore]

Semper Safe

Semper Tutis

James

 

[chickdiver]

People have to make choices in their lives, and I doubt that anyone can afford to invest in every choice available. There is the CCR route, SCR route, the sidemount route, the OMS route, there is your GUE-DIR/Hacyon route, there is the DUI route, and Zeagle has a route of their own (sheriff's depts prefer this one, if you look closely to the TV news), and for the truly economically challenged there is the Oceanic route.

GUE-DIR/Halcyon was momentarily probably the best cave diving route. That is, until the sidemount alternative came along.

There are just a lot of choices. They all have their place.

Sidemount doesn't work for ALL cave diving applications, just as backmount does not. If you want to do long dives, in deep caves, on DPVs, sidemount doesn't work because you cannot efficiently carry the necessary stage bottles.

SIDEMOUNT IS NOT A CURE ALL- NEITHER IS BACKMOUNT.

Like Boogie- I would LOVE tohear about your cave diving experience, because my guess is that you have none. As usual, you have taken an idea that caught your attention and run with it, while having ZERO idea of it's uses and limitations.

I'm going diving.....

 

[IndigoBlue]

Sidemount doesn't work for ALL cave diving applications, just as backmount does not. If you want to do long dives, in deep caves, on DPVs, sidemount doesn't work because you cannot efficiently carry the necessary stage bottles.
..

I am sure Curt Bowen would love to have the opportunity to disagree with you. He advocates sidemount like you advocate GUE-DIR/Halcyon. And never the twain shall meet.

 

[Boogie711]

I don't understand, Indigo? I'm actually quite naturally curious to hear specifics, since I'm not that bright. What's your cave diving experience, and how was it beneficial to you personally from having dove sidemount that couldn't have been done backmount?

 

[quimby]

People have to make choices in their lives, and I doubt that anyone can afford to invest in every choice available. There is the CCR route, SCR route, the sidemount route, the OMS route, there is your GUE-DIR/Hacyon route, there is the DUI route, and Zeagle has a route of their own (sheriff's depts prefer this one, if you look closely to the TV news), and for the truly economically challenged there is the Oceanic route.

There are just a lot of choices. They all have their place.

Wait I have come to bury Ceasar (noted above) not praise him...but if you just take the last line and not the one I didnt copy there is a point.. sorry to interupt

 

[IndigoBlue]

Different strokes for different folks

I can see why videographers prefer CCRs.

And I can see why u/w hunters and photographers prefer SCRs.

I can see why cave divers would prefer sidemounts.

I can see why the sheriff's dept divers prefer the Zeagle equipment.

ScubaPro and DUI seem to be battling it out with their own comprehensive lines of products, only difference being ScubaPro gave up on drysuits already, whereas DUI is still trying to market themselves as the best drysuit (D/C and Zeagle and Bare make much better drysuits than DUI however, in my opinion.)

OMS probably owns the shipwreck diving market.

That is a lot of scuba coverage. Its truly no wonder that each diver has his/her own preferences.

For one manufacturer to come along with their own training agency and claim that one size fits all, defies all description.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Wow ... can't believe I just waded thru all 21 pages.

Getting back to the original question ... I'm not DIR, primarily because I have a natural resistance to anything that requires a uniform.

Ironically, I mostly wear the uniform anyway. But it feels better when it's not a requirement. I do a few things that the DIR purists wouldn't approve ... my TransPlate harness has quick-release buckles, I use my computer in computer mode, and I prefer to wear my Goodman handle on my right hand.

But my diving style's pretty compatible with my DIR friends ... not exactly the same, but close enough that we can dive together comfortably. If there are DIR divers out there who won't dive with me that's OK ... diving's about personal comfort, and if you're not comfortable with someone you shouldn't dive with them. That's true whether DIR is involved or not. People shouldn't get too hung up on it. On the other hand, in real life it seems to be more the exception than the rule ... I dive with lots of DIR folks, and can't remember anyone ever telling me "no thanks".

I'm not DIR because I don't want to be DIR. It's that all-or-nothing, take-it-or-leave-it thing ... if those are the choices, I'll leave it, thank you.

Doesn't mean I think they're bad people ... quite the contrary. Almost all the DIR folks I know are really nice people. Many of them are my favorite people to dive with.

I've had the pleasure to meet MHK ... in real life I think he's a pretty classy dude. I'd consider it an honor to dive with him sometime. But if he doesn't want to dive with me because I'm not DIR, I won't be offended by that. Gets back to that personal choice thing ... we all have the right to choose dive buddies we're comfortable with ... DIR or otherwise.

Too bad this thread degenerated ... it got off to such a great start. Don't bother pointing fingers ... it just seems to be the nature of the topic.

Ironic, I think most of us ... DIR and otherwise ... would probably have a great time together if we were to meet in real life. The Internet just seems to bring out the contentiousness in some of us ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boomx5]

I've had the pleasure to meet MHK ... in real life I think he's a pretty classy dude. I'd consider it an honor to dive with him sometime. But if he doesn't want to dive with me because I'm not DIR, I won't be offended by that. Gets back to that personal choice thing ... we all have the right to choose dive buddies we're comfortable with ... DIR or otherwise.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

even if it is a little late. One thing I think is misunderstood is this Rule#1 thing. I dive with GUE trained and non-GUE trained divers quite a bit. To be honest, I have more fun diving with GUE trained buddies because I don't really ever have to second guess how they are going to do something, or how they are going to handle a situation. On the other hand, I've also dove with non-GUE trained divers and have also had a very nice time. It's just a little more "mental work" diving with someone who has different training than myself; but I'm sure a little getting used to each other could remedy the situation.

However, if I was going to be doing a more technical dive, I would make sure to align myself with someone who has the same training as myself because the stakes are higher and being on the same page is tantamount to success (and fun).

Don't forget, "Rule#1" came about because of divers with unsafe attitudes showing up for a big dive that shouldn't have been there in the first place. Just because someone isn't GUE trained, doesn't mean they are a (dare I say it) "Stroke". You can call them whatever you want, but at the end of the day, all they are is an unsafe diver; and I don't think anybody (GUE trained or not) wants to dive with someone like that. Personally, I'll dive with just about anybody just as long as they're safe. Shoot, I'd even dive with you Indigo; just as long as you bought the pizza.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

DA - thanks for your comments on this issue. Have you read many of the other threads this particular individual has participated in? Especially on the topic at hand?

I understand your concern but I do think it makes more sense to just ignore the person than to attempt to discredit them with personal attacks.

To be honest I am probably equally at fault in that regard due to the tone I took in stating my concern about your response. My aplogies. Things often just hit me wrong before the first cup of coffee in the morning takes effect.

In any case when anyone resorts to attacking someone's character in a debate rather than sticking with debating the facts, they just end up looking like a jerk and only hurt their own credibility.