The old can of worms ...

[SPG3K]

Well, this is not an intended flame, however, I feel it should be posted here.

Walter I used your post about how to find a good instructor, and using said post, I crossed 2 out of 3 local LDS Instructors off my list. Both crossed off were NAUI schools/instructors.

The PADI Instructor I took OW with was amazing. He taught the PADI standards and then taught us how to ACTUALLY dive. PADI tried their level best to get me to pay out big bucks to take meaningless classes for AOW. This instructor made my AOW a learning experience that made me a better diver. Not just a diver with lots of cards.

Since speaking to one of the NAUI folks again, I have recently (yesterday) reaffirmed what someone posted earlier.

The agency can have whatever standards they like. It's up to the instructor to put out good students. The "Agency" has nothing to do with it.

Maybe instructors in different agencies can be held to different standards, but it still falls to the instructor to put out the education. The agency as a whole (PADI, in my case) had no influence whatsoever on my training except the knowledge I was REQUIRED to memorize to pass a test.

Touting one agencies standards over another is simply a misnomer. A NAUI instructor could push a bad student through higher standards just as easy as a PADI instructor could. There is no NAUI police watching the pool sessions or the tests.

Instructor makes the difference. Period. PADI/NAUI/SSI just influences what material you SHOULD be taught. Not what you WILL be taught or be realistically REQUIRED to prove.

Long story short: NAUI doesn't teach OW. A PERSON teaches OW. Who then, is the true controlling factor in how someone learns to dive.

 

[maged_mmh]

SPG:
now, the real thing that is everybody is shy to mention is that all in all what you need out of an agency is just the card to allow you to dive. NOBODY CAN ARGUE ABOUT THAT EXCEPT PARTICULAR AGENCY INSTRUCTORS TO DEFEND THEIR CASH FLOW.
now for the instructor part, given that you've chosen reasonably accredited agency, it is really a personal taste you may like one instructor that i don't (e.g. tough vs. easy going or putting these extras in the course or just get your a** certified) it is really upto what you want to do, that is why there is so many lousy (in someone point of view) instructors around that are still in business.

 

[300bar]

and the beat goes on and on.

N

Don't believe at this point it's a beat,it's just a new members serious interrest.

 

[300bar]

The PADI Instructor I took OW with was amazing. He taught the PADI standards and then taught us how to ACTUALLY dive. PADI tried their level best to get me to pay out big bucks to take meaningless classes for AOW. This instructor made my AOW a learning experience that made me a better diver. Not just a diver with lots of cards.

This has been on the agenda many,many times,PADI sets minimum standards,as an instructor you have to meet these,there in NO rule that says you can't go beyond them.

Standard joke is that PADI student do their skill on the ocean floor,well I can tell you my students have to do all their skills on the fly/swimm.

Long story short: NAUI doesn't teach OW. A PERSON teaches OW. Who then, is the true controlling factor in how someone learns to dive.

You've got the point,NO standard will ever learn you to dive,but a good instructor will.

 

[JKPAO]

Anyone remember when....... breath in, breath out as often as needed.
When it get hard to breath pull the lever down and begin your accent.
Stay below your bubbles. This was my first teaching from the sports supply store salesman.
Double hose Aqulung. All I needed was the money to buy it and off I was.
Lots of years later I have taken courses through several dif groups and I do believe it is the instructor that can impart the needed info. Your not building rockets so...... why make it hard on yourself. Yeah this was before I got any cards, now I can pull out any card they need, so no I have never been turned away.
See you topside! John

 

[Walter]

Interesting, I last posted in this thread over two years ago, now there are two posts here addressed to me.

Honestly, I'm wondering:
been through 5 threads since morning; 3 out of these with people trying their level best to flame Walter!!
maybe i've not been around so long, only dropping by this forum every now & then. But the way it seems that there is a well sized army trying to get him for a game
Walter,
if you're so hunted, think about PMs instead of public posting

Why should I care if there's an army hunting me or not? This is a place to talk about diving. To learn. To help others. I enjoy all three. I won't be silenced so easily.

What do you mean by, "to get him for a game?" I don't understand the term.

Walter I used your post about how to find a good instructor, and using said post, I crossed 2 out of 3 local LDS Instructors off my list. Both crossed off were NAUI schools/instructors.

The PADI Instructor I took OW with was amazing. He taught the PADI standards and then taught us how to ACTUALLY dive. PADI tried their level best to get me to pay out big bucks to take meaningless classes for AOW. This instructor made my AOW a learning experience that made me a better diver. Not just a diver with lots of cards.

I think that's wonderful. I think it's sad that two of three instructors didn't make the grade, but it's usually more than that you have to pass on before you find one that is worth a damn. The important thing is you found a good instructor.

The agency can have whatever standards they like. It's up to the instructor to put out good students. The "Agency" has nothing to do with it.

It can be that way, but it rarely is. No agency has perfect standards, but some are much better than others. Most instructors teach their agency's standards to the letter. In those cases, the instructor has nothing to do with the quality of the course, it's all up to the agency. Frankly, I wish more instructors, of all agencies, would teach way beyond standards.

PADI sets minimum standards,as an instructor you have to meet these,there in NO rule that says you can't go beyond them.

True, but they do have a rule that prohibits their instructors from requiring their students to going beyond them. Some other agencies allow their instructors to add requirements beyond the agency standards.

 

[String]

Then your instructor broke standards !

Yes. Sadly time has to be wasted on a diving course to teach snorkelling despite the 2 being completely unrelated.

 

[bfw]

This has been on the agenda many,many times,PADI sets minimum standards,as an instructor you have to meet these,there in NO rule that says you can't go beyond them.

Not true. PADI specifically prohibits adding anything to their requirements. Sure, the instructor can teach anything additional they want, and offer students the opportunity to try it, but they can't condition certification on successfully doing it. In the real world of modern training, if it's not a gating element to the obtaining the desired credential, it's meaningless. The students who need it most are the ones who will refuse it.

NAUI and YMCA allow the instructor to withhold certification from a student who meets the letter of their requirements, based on the "loved one" question.

I've seen hundreds of students go through an OW course that offers PADI, NAUI, and YMCA certs. Toward the end of the course there are skills that need not be performed if the student wants only the PADI cert. To a one, the students who chose not to perform those skills and forgo the additional certs were the ones who stuggled with all the skills, who would have benefitted most from the additional skills
in both confidence and capability. The student who won't do the optional work is the one who most needs to do it.

 

[Nemrod]

Don't believe at this point it's a beat,it's just a new members serious interrest.

Yeah, two years ago.

N

 

[RJP]

Yeah, two years ago.

N

Yeah, and according to his profile he hasn't been back since! Could indicate the level of interest in participating on SB that this thread engendered with the OP?