divinginn:
Same here, I got my son cert. about a year & a half ago & he's gone diving all of 8 times.
Happy Diving
John
The NEW Underwater Adventures of an OLD Fart
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Same here, I got my son cert. about a year & a half ago & he's gone diving all of 8 times.
Happy Diving
John
OP
Ahhh, yes... The long awaited pictures. Underwater pictures to follow. Click on each thumbnail for full size (about 150k). Sorry about the quality, I still don't have the hang of the camera yet.
OP
So when last I updated, it was Friday night the third night of class. Since then, 3 more nights have passed (M, T and W) and the class is now over.
So the BIG news is BOTH girls PASSED the cert exam (WHOOO HOOO!), which I'm VERY proud of them for doing! They stayed at my house last Friday night and we ended up doing a major study session on Saturday (you would think from the comments it was torture). They both got dive tables working well and (I thought) knew the difference between DCS and nitrogen narcosis. Sunday was a cook-out for family with class on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Both girls had no study time because of school, so when they took the test last night it was COLD TURKEY. Although they didnt get 100%, they did GOOD enough (Im reminded of that joke about what you call the med school student who passed the test by only 2 questions? DOCTOR!). Nevertheless, I still need to do more review with them in a few areas.
Tyler, at 13, is the book smart one. She grasped concepts somewhat better and certainly her reading comprehension is at high school level. Her questions were also process oriented and I could tell she was "working stuff out." Her maturity was good, meaning I believe she could handle most situations without difficulty. Her underwater skills are good and I'm comfortable about proceeding with her.
Natascha, at 12, is a natural underwater. Her skill level is high and I can tell she is very "comfortable" while diving. Physically, she is a problem solver and could probably work her way out of most issues. I timed her holding her breath underwater (not during class) and when she passed 2 minutes (2 minutes!) I pulled her up. BUT, her book smarts are marginal and I would say her maturity is on the low side of average. She really doesnt understand some of the more difficult book learning concepts (worse yet, she likes to tell you she DOES) and she has a tendency to "goof off" quite a bit (in honesty, when I was 12 I was JUST like her). I'm going to proceed with her to cert dives, but I need to see more out of her then what I've been getting.
On the good side of book learning, both girls really grasped dive tables WELL. They even figured out "reverse table" problems (calculating a SIT) without me showing them how to do it, so I was impressed.
Continuing with my discussion of the instructor and training program from earlier, I'd have to say that I'm still NOT all that happy with a "home study" only type of approach. I think this is good for some adults, but with kids it definitely takes a parent to keep them focused. Maybe a combination approach (both home study and minimal lecture) might be a better idea.
Both girls and I liked the instructor. Good attitude, obvious interest in helping and (thank GOD) patience! For the most part the instructor had good underwater control, good skills and was able to move things along while underwater. Organizational skills definitely need improvement, especially setting up stuff at the beginning of class, but I'm not certain this is an instructional issue vs. a LDS issue (the store set-up of equipment for instructional use is lacking). The instructor is young, so I'm sure things will improve with time. I was surprised that no "course evaluation form" was used on the last night of class.
Certification dives are handed over to other instructional staff, so it will be interesting to see how this works out.
I'm just leaving work now so I'll post some more thoughts and discussion in the next couple of days. PLEASE post comments and thoughts about what you think!
If ya'll are still reading this thread, THANKS for the interest and responses.
P.S. - DOUG, thanks BRO, I'm not trying to ignore you, I'll be to you SOON!
So the BIG news is BOTH girls PASSED the cert exam (WHOOO HOOO!), which I'm VERY proud of them for doing! They stayed at my house last Friday night and we ended up doing a major study session on Saturday (you would think from the comments it was torture). They both got dive tables working well and (I thought) knew the difference between DCS and nitrogen narcosis. Sunday was a cook-out for family with class on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Both girls had no study time because of school, so when they took the test last night it was COLD TURKEY. Although they didnt get 100%, they did GOOD enough (Im reminded of that joke about what you call the med school student who passed the test by only 2 questions? DOCTOR!). Nevertheless, I still need to do more review with them in a few areas.
Tyler, at 13, is the book smart one. She grasped concepts somewhat better and certainly her reading comprehension is at high school level. Her questions were also process oriented and I could tell she was "working stuff out." Her maturity was good, meaning I believe she could handle most situations without difficulty. Her underwater skills are good and I'm comfortable about proceeding with her.
Natascha, at 12, is a natural underwater. Her skill level is high and I can tell she is very "comfortable" while diving. Physically, she is a problem solver and could probably work her way out of most issues. I timed her holding her breath underwater (not during class) and when she passed 2 minutes (2 minutes!) I pulled her up. BUT, her book smarts are marginal and I would say her maturity is on the low side of average. She really doesnt understand some of the more difficult book learning concepts (worse yet, she likes to tell you she DOES) and she has a tendency to "goof off" quite a bit (in honesty, when I was 12 I was JUST like her). I'm going to proceed with her to cert dives, but I need to see more out of her then what I've been getting.
On the good side of book learning, both girls really grasped dive tables WELL. They even figured out "reverse table" problems (calculating a SIT) without me showing them how to do it, so I was impressed.
Continuing with my discussion of the instructor and training program from earlier, I'd have to say that I'm still NOT all that happy with a "home study" only type of approach. I think this is good for some adults, but with kids it definitely takes a parent to keep them focused. Maybe a combination approach (both home study and minimal lecture) might be a better idea.
Both girls and I liked the instructor. Good attitude, obvious interest in helping and (thank GOD) patience! For the most part the instructor had good underwater control, good skills and was able to move things along while underwater. Organizational skills definitely need improvement, especially setting up stuff at the beginning of class, but I'm not certain this is an instructional issue vs. a LDS issue (the store set-up of equipment for instructional use is lacking). The instructor is young, so I'm sure things will improve with time. I was surprised that no "course evaluation form" was used on the last night of class.
Certification dives are handed over to other instructional staff, so it will be interesting to see how this works out.
I'm just leaving work now so I'll post some more thoughts and discussion in the next couple of days. PLEASE post comments and thoughts about what you think!
If ya'll are still reading this thread, THANKS for the interest and responses.
P.S. - DOUG, thanks BRO, I'm not trying to ignore you, I'll be to you SOON!
OP
Hi All:
Sorry about not updating this thread for awhile, but I've been doing other stuff.
The girls and I finally went for certification dives back in October at a quarry called "Lake Rawlings", located about 2 HRS to the west of Virginia Beach, south of Richmond. The LDS had a big weekend planned up there that included assisting with hosting the DUI "Dog Days" weekend. We packed up my car (a Subaru Outback XT) with all the dive and camping gear, along with us (groan), and hit the road Friday afternoon. Rush hour was a bear and we didn't arrive until about 8:30 PM, well after dark. This place was located back in the sticks (literally), so it was an interesting drive at night. We eventually found it, pitched tents, got a fire going and met some nice people.
Soon after, we hit the sack. It did get COLD, and I was glad I brought the zero degree bags. Saturday dawned bright and clear and we had a fire going in no time. Other students with the LDS started showing up and soon we had a sizeable group. Prior to coming up, I had called and spoke to Duckster3d, a fellow Scubaboard member and instructor, who VERY graciously volunteered to assist us with completing the girls cert dives. We met at breakfast and chatted a bit what a guy! By 9:00 AM we were gearing up and getting ready to hit the water.
Now from the pictures I posted earlier, you can see that Tyler is the smaller one and Natascha is the taller one. I ended up buying the wetsuit from the LDS you see Tyler in (can you believe $5.00?) and renting Natascha's. For some reason it takes Natascha only 30 seconds to get in that suit (she looks like an "X-Men" extra wearing it) while poor Tyler and I have to struggle. 15 minutes later I was holding Tyler in the air by the sides of the suit shaking her up and down to make it fit. Poor kid, she looked like a green Stay-Puff man after she got in it. She's not an off the shelf fit and I wish we could have made it easier.
Anyway, we finished getting geared up and shortly after headed down to the water. WOW, I had never seen so many divers in one place at one time! People were tripping over each other to get in the water. There were probably 200+ people gearing up at the same time (BTW, Im NOT joking ). I was expecting helicopters playing "Apocalypse Now" music to start circling at any moment. A rather large Dive Master standing near a group of advanced class students was telling them how he loved the smell of Nitrox in the morning (I am joking ) As we walked through this crowd of pirates, Tyler had to endure all the "small kid" comments (She's now 14 but still looks 9 or 10) including wow, that tank is bigger than that kid and I didnt know they let 8 year olds dive , etc., etc. Like a trooper, she handled it without comment. Soon, however, we reached the water and walked into the lake.
Duckster was waiting for us in the water with another student. We did equipment checks, a quick brief and headed out to the first platform. Lake Rawlings is REALLY well designed for training. The entrance is shallow, sandy and forms a gentle sloping ramp into the deeper areas. 50 divers or more could stand in the entrance area without crowding. Theres also an L shaped dock with benches, ladders and an area for standing entry. The lake has more than 5 submerged training platforms with buoys, all at different depths. Sunken boats, cars, buses and other objects complete the underwater park, all of them connected by guide lines for touring. Shallow depths start at 15 FFW, with the quarry bottom at 60 FFW. Underwater visibility was up to 50 FT (I could clearly see people on the surface from 52 FFW), which the lake dive shop claims is kept that way by fresh water clams. Yeah, I thought the same thing
Anyway, we headed out to a 10 FT platform to practice skills for Dive #1. Duckster wanted to practice surface dives on snorkel, which he and the other student accomplished. The girls struggled with this, however, because of the newness of the situation and the gear. Then Duckster did something that impressed the heck out of me. Instead of screwing around with trying to get a minor skill right, he said forget it, lets just head down to the platform. Natascha was on the bottom in a flash, but Tyler took some time to equalize and slowly submerge. Clearly, the wetsuit was uncomfortable for Tyler and took some adjustment. Nevertheless, less than a minute later we were kneeling on the 10 FT platform doing skills. Both girls did all the skills without hesitation, including mask off breathing. We also did air sharing drills and air sharing ascents. We then did a short tour of one of the circuits and headed back to the beach.
After a 10 minute surface interval, Duckster briefed Dive #2 and told us we would be practicing more skills on the 20 FT platform, including a doff/don (!). The girls eyes got big when he described what this was (I love old school) but they had seen me practice it in the pool and wanted to try it. So, off to the 20 FT platform we swam, submerged and started skills. First they did an OOA emergency swimming ascent (instructor accompanied) and then completed a tank/bcd doff/don while staying on the platform. Both did amazingly well, completing the skill without difficulty. Next came a tour of the lake, including the school bus, which they had great fun swimming through. Depths hit 35 FFW. We finished the dive, got out and had lunch.
For Dive #3, we headed out to the 20 FT platform and finished working on buoyancy. For this dive I took 5 LBS off each girl to free them up some. On the platform, both achieved a basic hover and seemed to be using buoyancy control pretty well during the dives. This time we headed off on a deeper tour to see more stuff. We touched the major thermocline at 55 FFW and the girls got a GOOD taste of COLD, then headed back up into shallower areas swimming along a shear rock face that dropped to 60 FT. Again, the girls controlled buoyancy, stayed together and even stayed off the silty bottom without being told. Bottom time was about 40 minutes for this dive and that ended the day.
Duckster had to leave that night, so we ended up starting Dive #4 the next day with a new instructor. Tyler again had some problems that needed to be worked out (mostly surface anxiety, once she got to the bottom she was fine) but eventually she did OK. We also practiced giant stride entries on this dive instead of walking in. Once again, Natascha the aquanaut was rearing to go. If you could harness that girl shed make an excellent DPV. At the end of Dive #4, I let the girls fool around some near the walk-in while doing the surface interval before the next dive. A few minutes later, Nataschas head popped up (she was on snorkel) and said Uncle Drew, I found a DIVE COMPUTER! Boy, did she! A brand new Suunto Vytec. We held it up and asked if anyone had lost it and a very grateful man identified it as his. He lost it the first time he wore it! Natascha got a brief round of applause and actually blushed.
Finally, for Dive #5 we got cut loose. I briefed the dive with both girls and we did a long tour of all major features meeting groups of other divers underwater along the way. On this dive, both girls were wearing hoods and gloves. Because they were now comfortable and the visibility was good, we hit 63 FFW in one area of the lake. They didnt like diving in the colder water so we didnt stay long, but they got to try everything everyone else did and, in my opinion, handled it reasonably well. Although they obviously need more diving experience, I think what we did was a good start. In the spring, well go back to Lake Rawlings on a Saturday, followed by doing at least 2 boat dives offshore.
But, as far as the standards go, following the logging of Dive #5, they officially were certified and received their SSI certification cards. Tyler had been SO worried over the weekend, always asking Uncle Drew, can I FAIL this? She was grinning ear-to-ear when the LDS instructor handed her the temp card. I was very proud of them both. For each of them, this was the first time they had successfully participated in a group activity where all the other participants were adults not related to them. I watched them grow up some that weekend and in a way it saddened me because I knew it wouldnt be long until Uncle Drew isnt cool to hang with anymore and friends their own age become more important (sigh )
In any case, thats NOT the way it is NOW and we did have a BLAST. My hats off to Duckster3d, an obvious professional, for putting up with us without complaint. For anyone interested in instruction in the Virginia Beach area Id highly recommend you PM him. His obvious interest in students, instructional confidence, skills and ability to sense how to make it work only come from serious experience in both instruction and diving. I hope I get to dive with him again.
So, that about wraps it up. I have some more pictures to post, but most are pool shots because I ran out of film for the (cheap) UW camera I brought along on the trip and couldnt get any while up there. Didnt really matter, however, because it would have been difficult without another adult along to help.
If you guys want to hear more, tell me and Ill update again in the spring.
Hope yall enjoyed this
Peace
Sorry about not updating this thread for awhile, but I've been doing other stuff.
The girls and I finally went for certification dives back in October at a quarry called "Lake Rawlings", located about 2 HRS to the west of Virginia Beach, south of Richmond. The LDS had a big weekend planned up there that included assisting with hosting the DUI "Dog Days" weekend. We packed up my car (a Subaru Outback XT) with all the dive and camping gear, along with us (groan), and hit the road Friday afternoon. Rush hour was a bear and we didn't arrive until about 8:30 PM, well after dark. This place was located back in the sticks (literally), so it was an interesting drive at night. We eventually found it, pitched tents, got a fire going and met some nice people.
Soon after, we hit the sack. It did get COLD, and I was glad I brought the zero degree bags. Saturday dawned bright and clear and we had a fire going in no time. Other students with the LDS started showing up and soon we had a sizeable group. Prior to coming up, I had called and spoke to Duckster3d, a fellow Scubaboard member and instructor, who VERY graciously volunteered to assist us with completing the girls cert dives. We met at breakfast and chatted a bit what a guy! By 9:00 AM we were gearing up and getting ready to hit the water.
Now from the pictures I posted earlier, you can see that Tyler is the smaller one and Natascha is the taller one. I ended up buying the wetsuit from the LDS you see Tyler in (can you believe $5.00?) and renting Natascha's. For some reason it takes Natascha only 30 seconds to get in that suit (she looks like an "X-Men" extra wearing it) while poor Tyler and I have to struggle. 15 minutes later I was holding Tyler in the air by the sides of the suit shaking her up and down to make it fit. Poor kid, she looked like a green Stay-Puff man after she got in it. She's not an off the shelf fit and I wish we could have made it easier.
Anyway, we finished getting geared up and shortly after headed down to the water. WOW, I had never seen so many divers in one place at one time! People were tripping over each other to get in the water. There were probably 200+ people gearing up at the same time (BTW, Im NOT joking ). I was expecting helicopters playing "Apocalypse Now" music to start circling at any moment. A rather large Dive Master standing near a group of advanced class students was telling them how he loved the smell of Nitrox in the morning (I am joking ) As we walked through this crowd of pirates, Tyler had to endure all the "small kid" comments (She's now 14 but still looks 9 or 10) including wow, that tank is bigger than that kid and I didnt know they let 8 year olds dive , etc., etc. Like a trooper, she handled it without comment. Soon, however, we reached the water and walked into the lake.
Duckster was waiting for us in the water with another student. We did equipment checks, a quick brief and headed out to the first platform. Lake Rawlings is REALLY well designed for training. The entrance is shallow, sandy and forms a gentle sloping ramp into the deeper areas. 50 divers or more could stand in the entrance area without crowding. Theres also an L shaped dock with benches, ladders and an area for standing entry. The lake has more than 5 submerged training platforms with buoys, all at different depths. Sunken boats, cars, buses and other objects complete the underwater park, all of them connected by guide lines for touring. Shallow depths start at 15 FFW, with the quarry bottom at 60 FFW. Underwater visibility was up to 50 FT (I could clearly see people on the surface from 52 FFW), which the lake dive shop claims is kept that way by fresh water clams. Yeah, I thought the same thing
Anyway, we headed out to a 10 FT platform to practice skills for Dive #1. Duckster wanted to practice surface dives on snorkel, which he and the other student accomplished. The girls struggled with this, however, because of the newness of the situation and the gear. Then Duckster did something that impressed the heck out of me. Instead of screwing around with trying to get a minor skill right, he said forget it, lets just head down to the platform. Natascha was on the bottom in a flash, but Tyler took some time to equalize and slowly submerge. Clearly, the wetsuit was uncomfortable for Tyler and took some adjustment. Nevertheless, less than a minute later we were kneeling on the 10 FT platform doing skills. Both girls did all the skills without hesitation, including mask off breathing. We also did air sharing drills and air sharing ascents. We then did a short tour of one of the circuits and headed back to the beach.
After a 10 minute surface interval, Duckster briefed Dive #2 and told us we would be practicing more skills on the 20 FT platform, including a doff/don (!). The girls eyes got big when he described what this was (I love old school) but they had seen me practice it in the pool and wanted to try it. So, off to the 20 FT platform we swam, submerged and started skills. First they did an OOA emergency swimming ascent (instructor accompanied) and then completed a tank/bcd doff/don while staying on the platform. Both did amazingly well, completing the skill without difficulty. Next came a tour of the lake, including the school bus, which they had great fun swimming through. Depths hit 35 FFW. We finished the dive, got out and had lunch.
For Dive #3, we headed out to the 20 FT platform and finished working on buoyancy. For this dive I took 5 LBS off each girl to free them up some. On the platform, both achieved a basic hover and seemed to be using buoyancy control pretty well during the dives. This time we headed off on a deeper tour to see more stuff. We touched the major thermocline at 55 FFW and the girls got a GOOD taste of COLD, then headed back up into shallower areas swimming along a shear rock face that dropped to 60 FT. Again, the girls controlled buoyancy, stayed together and even stayed off the silty bottom without being told. Bottom time was about 40 minutes for this dive and that ended the day.
Duckster had to leave that night, so we ended up starting Dive #4 the next day with a new instructor. Tyler again had some problems that needed to be worked out (mostly surface anxiety, once she got to the bottom she was fine) but eventually she did OK. We also practiced giant stride entries on this dive instead of walking in. Once again, Natascha the aquanaut was rearing to go. If you could harness that girl shed make an excellent DPV. At the end of Dive #4, I let the girls fool around some near the walk-in while doing the surface interval before the next dive. A few minutes later, Nataschas head popped up (she was on snorkel) and said Uncle Drew, I found a DIVE COMPUTER! Boy, did she! A brand new Suunto Vytec. We held it up and asked if anyone had lost it and a very grateful man identified it as his. He lost it the first time he wore it! Natascha got a brief round of applause and actually blushed.
Finally, for Dive #5 we got cut loose. I briefed the dive with both girls and we did a long tour of all major features meeting groups of other divers underwater along the way. On this dive, both girls were wearing hoods and gloves. Because they were now comfortable and the visibility was good, we hit 63 FFW in one area of the lake. They didnt like diving in the colder water so we didnt stay long, but they got to try everything everyone else did and, in my opinion, handled it reasonably well. Although they obviously need more diving experience, I think what we did was a good start. In the spring, well go back to Lake Rawlings on a Saturday, followed by doing at least 2 boat dives offshore.
But, as far as the standards go, following the logging of Dive #5, they officially were certified and received their SSI certification cards. Tyler had been SO worried over the weekend, always asking Uncle Drew, can I FAIL this? She was grinning ear-to-ear when the LDS instructor handed her the temp card. I was very proud of them both. For each of them, this was the first time they had successfully participated in a group activity where all the other participants were adults not related to them. I watched them grow up some that weekend and in a way it saddened me because I knew it wouldnt be long until Uncle Drew isnt cool to hang with anymore and friends their own age become more important (sigh )
In any case, thats NOT the way it is NOW and we did have a BLAST. My hats off to Duckster3d, an obvious professional, for putting up with us without complaint. For anyone interested in instruction in the Virginia Beach area Id highly recommend you PM him. His obvious interest in students, instructional confidence, skills and ability to sense how to make it work only come from serious experience in both instruction and diving. I hope I get to dive with him again.
So, that about wraps it up. I have some more pictures to post, but most are pool shots because I ran out of film for the (cheap) UW camera I brought along on the trip and couldnt get any while up there. Didnt really matter, however, because it would have been difficult without another adult along to help.
If you guys want to hear more, tell me and Ill update again in the spring.
Hope yall enjoyed this
Peace
Very cool story, and it sounds like those are two neat kids. Yes, I'd like to hear how they do when they get out and do some real diving! (You are planning on taking them someplace warm and wonderful this winter, right?)
SparticleBrane
Contributor
Glad to hear you had a good time.
Specifically--I think decent visibility is good for new students, but too much of a good thing spoils them. Many diving locations won't have 50ft of visibility, and giving a new student such good vis really ups their expectations of other diving locations. I would much rather do training where there's 15-20ft of vis. This way there's enough to see, but not so much that they're spoiled (also helps while they're navigating...there's no point in navigating if you can see what you're going to). Another factor is comfort. If someone is comfortable in 15ft of vis, they'll most likely be comfortable with 50ft. It doesn't always work the other way around...
Another reason--there's no silt to speak of on the bottom. Most of the stuff on the bottom is stuck to the rocks and doesn't come undone when kicked, thus there's no punishment for bad finning technique. The students can roto-till around on the bottom with essentially zero adverse effect to visibility.
There are deep dropoffs/ledges (which you apparently found) that I believe are not good for a control aspect. Get some new students wandering too close to the droppofs and you might have to decide between catching the ones who went exploring over the edge and staying with the ones who decided to stay put.
Last but not least, there's a huge bottleneck getting TO the water. You're not allowed to get close to it (not that you'd be able to anyway) with your car, so you have to come up, drop stuff off, and go park somewhere. Very time consuming and inefficient.
For OW training I believe that Fantasy Lake in Rolesville, NC is a much better choice. Silt on the bottom, not the world's best vis, and easy parking for many people makes it much more attractive. That plus it's slightly cheaper.
You did what?!? You went down to the deep end with no discussion of the most basic safety protocols? Especially with young people who apparently didn't pay much attention to the safety information that they were supposed to watch? You're very, very lucky that nothing happened and they didn't bolt...all someone had to do was kick one of their masks off, then they breath-hold up to the surface...
Was the instructor there watching you? From the way that's written, it doesn't sound like it. This guy (gal?) should have their card revoked. From what you've said, they have no business teaching scuba.
PS: Tell Natascha not to rub her eyes in the pool. It only makes things worse.
I disagree. In fact, I think Lake Rawlings isn't well suited for OW training at all.Drewski:
Specifically--I think decent visibility is good for new students, but too much of a good thing spoils them. Many diving locations won't have 50ft of visibility, and giving a new student such good vis really ups their expectations of other diving locations. I would much rather do training where there's 15-20ft of vis. This way there's enough to see, but not so much that they're spoiled (also helps while they're navigating...there's no point in navigating if you can see what you're going to). Another factor is comfort. If someone is comfortable in 15ft of vis, they'll most likely be comfortable with 50ft. It doesn't always work the other way around...
Another reason--there's no silt to speak of on the bottom. Most of the stuff on the bottom is stuck to the rocks and doesn't come undone when kicked, thus there's no punishment for bad finning technique. The students can roto-till around on the bottom with essentially zero adverse effect to visibility.
There are deep dropoffs/ledges (which you apparently found) that I believe are not good for a control aspect. Get some new students wandering too close to the droppofs and you might have to decide between catching the ones who went exploring over the edge and staying with the ones who decided to stay put.
Last but not least, there's a huge bottleneck getting TO the water. You're not allowed to get close to it (not that you'd be able to anyway) with your car, so you have to come up, drop stuff off, and go park somewhere. Very time consuming and inefficient.
For OW training I believe that Fantasy Lake in Rolesville, NC is a much better choice. Silt on the bottom, not the world's best vis, and easy parking for many people makes it much more attractive. That plus it's slightly cheaper.
You did what?!? You went down to the deep end with no discussion of the most basic safety protocols? Especially with young people who apparently didn't pay much attention to the safety information that they were supposed to watch?
You're very, very lucky that nothing happened and they didn't bolt...all someone had to do was kick one of their masks off, then they breath-hold up to the surface...Was the instructor there watching you? From the way that's written, it doesn't sound like it. This guy (gal?) should have their card revoked. From what you've said, they have no business teaching scuba.
By all means, name the shop. They're apparently avoiding basic safety protocols--not someone I'd ever want to do business with.
PS: Tell Natascha not to rub her eyes in the pool. It only makes things worse.
I never understood the term "OLD FART"
There is no such thing....the longest I've had a fart last is about 10 seconds....that is not old by any means. Now the after affects have lasted for a couple minutes, but OLD...hardly.
There is no such thing....the longest I've had a fart last is about 10 seconds....that is not old by any means. Now the after affects have lasted for a couple minutes, but OLD...hardly.
Cisco del Sur
Guest
Old??? 43???? I remember 43.....I think.....
Having decided that this diving thing was the next item on the list ( I had to dive without any kit but 'googles' and 'flippers' in 12*C water to clear a rope fouled prop on my boat earlier this year...still wondering where my 'bits' went...) I went to Sharm el Sheikh, Egypt, ( bonzer dive spot) a few months ago and did the Padi thing.
Age ? 60 years and 4 months.......early middle age.....
43? I think I remember 43..........
Speaking of farts...If you fart in a dry suit what is the effect on your buoyancy?
Having decided that this diving thing was the next item on the list ( I had to dive without any kit but 'googles' and 'flippers' in 12*C water to clear a rope fouled prop on my boat earlier this year...still wondering where my 'bits' went...) I went to Sharm el Sheikh, Egypt, ( bonzer dive spot) a few months ago and did the Padi thing.
Age ? 60 years and 4 months.......early middle age.....
43? I think I remember 43..........
Speaking of farts...If you fart in a dry suit what is the effect on your buoyancy?
Cisco del Sur:
The gas was already there!
Nothing went in the suit, nothing went out of it...
Bouyancy should not change...
OP
Hi SparticleBrane:
First, thanks for responding. Some of the stuff you said bothered me too, other stuff - well, let's go line-by-line.
Now, don't take me wrong here. I think the instructor should have done a BETTER job of talking about this and I spoke to the instructor afterward about it. BUT, it was the instructor's class, not mine. I've been out of teaching for more than 10 years and didn't know how they "do things now." There's nothing worse than some "expert" interrupting someone else and telling them how to do their job in front of paying customers. It's just unprofessional and discourteous.
As far as "identifying" the dive shop in this post, I won't but you notice I also didn't recommend them. A dive shop's reputation can't be made by only one instructor. It can, however, be ruined by only one instructor. This instructor was obviously new, needed more experience teaching but had an EXCELLENT attitude. I'd rather work with them to improve what they do instead of "busting" them for doing something wrong. Besides, dive shop choices are limited in my area.
Anyway, I hope this clears some stuff up. Again, thanks for the nice response...
Peace
First, thanks for responding. Some of the stuff you said bothered me too, other stuff - well, let's go line-by-line.
Although I agree that lower viz water is appropriate for training, I don't know if it's appropriate for everyone. If you read my profile, you know my experience, so I will tell you roughly 20% of new divers have mild to severe clusterphobia issues and don't always do well in low viz situations. Especially on the first few dives. Add to this a hood and mask and it will get very "tight" for some people. Quite a few of the posts to this board describing new diver symptoms of "anxiety" and "discomfort" are, in my opinion, mild clusterphobia that goes undetected. In my experience, when I can relieve this type "fear" initially, followed by building new divers into tight situations more gradually, they do much better. BTW, this wasn't a factor for these girls. The wanted to be on the bottom at the entry point while waiting for the instructor and viz was less than 1 FT there.SparticleBrane:
First, I can assure you that plenty of silt was stirred up and "hung" in the water. Viz in some sections was less than 5 FT. I watched one student "bottom crash" at 15 FT and, believe me, it created a ton of silt. As far as "punishing" bad finning technique, I've generally found that setting a good example is better than being punitive. Natascha was watching Duckster on one of the swims and I noticed she switched to frog kick (she did it right too) on a number of occasions. Both girls only hit the bottom a few times and it was on the first 3 dives.SparticleBrane:
No doubt and if you notice it was Dive #5 we did this on. I was happy with their buoyancy control by this point and I had reduced their weighting to be more neutral at depth. They maintained neutral with minimal BCD air at 50 FT. I also briefed them about the wall and the importance of following ledge lines to maintain a depth aspect. I was surprised they did this without being reminded while underwater, in fact Tyler liked floating free away from the bottom and being "above" stuff.SparticleBrane:
First, thanks for your concern. Second, do you REALLY think I'd let kids go to the bottom on SCUBA without having this discussion? We reviewed this VERY carefully during their intro lesson and I re-enforced this before they even got in the water that night. They also did mask clearing and other stuff in my pool before they went to the class. I was also in the deep end that night and watched all 4 students that came down.SparticleBrane:You did what?!? You went down to the deep end with no discussion of the most basic safety protocols? Especially with young people who apparently didn't pay much attention to the safety information that they were supposed to watch?
Now, don't take me wrong here. I think the instructor should have done a BETTER job of talking about this and I spoke to the instructor afterward about it. BUT, it was the instructor's class, not mine. I've been out of teaching for more than 10 years and didn't know how they "do things now." There's nothing worse than some "expert" interrupting someone else and telling them how to do their job in front of paying customers. It's just unprofessional and discourteous.
As far as "identifying" the dive shop in this post, I won't but you notice I also didn't recommend them. A dive shop's reputation can't be made by only one instructor. It can, however, be ruined by only one instructor. This instructor was obviously new, needed more experience teaching but had an EXCELLENT attitude. I'd rather work with them to improve what they do instead of "busting" them for doing something wrong. Besides, dive shop choices are limited in my area.
Try telling a 12 year old preteen female what to do all the time and see what happens...SparticleBrane:PS: Tell Natascha not to rub her eyes in the pool. It only makes things worse.
Anyway, I hope this clears some stuff up. Again, thanks for the nice response...
Peace
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