The LDS of the future

[Jax]

I admit, I only scanned the 3rd and 4th page . . .

What about the scuba manufacturers still treating LDS like car dealerships?

To carry our brand, you have to agree to not carry _____, not price it the way you want, and have to order $30k - $40k - $50k of stock. Oh, yeah, minimum order has to be in the $##k . . .

Look around! What other industry requires that kind of "dealership" for products that run in the $100 - $600 range?

How much more flexible could a local dive shop be if it were allowed to order according to need? No more stretched credit, more variety per shop . . .

I'd love to see the LDS of the future be able to order other than what s/he has as a "dealership", and offer more servicing across the board.

 

[Wookie]

Look around! What other industry requires that kind of "dealership" for products that run in the $100 - $600 range?

Hardware stores? (I don't run a hardware store, but I don't often see Ace branded products at Home Depot, or vice versa). Outboard motor dealerships? Cell phone stores? Inboard Marine Engines (Caterpillar, MTU, John Deere)? Yard Equipment? (Lawn tractors, push mowers, etc.) I'll think of more.

 

[leabre]

Jax, the excuse we see here is: everyone wants a ScubaPro whizbang or Suunto jazzbang and so we [and the vendors] gangbang. Is it a matter of shops carrying what sells? Or shops carrying what has the highest margin? I suspect it's both. New divers don't know or care. They'll buy what the instructor has, or what the shop pushes, or what they see advertized in every magazine that the shop has floating around.

With regs, local shops whine and cry about how they have to treat your like dirt because 'blaming' the policies of the vendors regarding the lifetime parts "warranty", anything less than official paperwork and they'll treat you like you cheated them by shopping online. When you try to ask for a discount they then whine and cry about how they'll go out of business if they give everything away for "free" (implying that discount == free). This is really just a symptom of poor service, but I believe it is promulgated by the attitudes of the vendors in general. Any online LDS (scuba.com is my LDS and I get air fills there) don't have such an attitude or problem and surprise, they don't carry any SP, Suunto, or AquaLung equipment and aren't SSI shops.

Perhaps I'm reading too far into this but I've seen shops that aren't SSI, don't carry any of those hostile name-brands, and are just awesome places to be. They aren't brainwashed to think you're cheating them if your papers aren't in order. Every single shop I've seen that carries those name brands or is an SSI shop has a certain hostility that, quite frankly, is a turn-off. I hate to generalize so I'll disclaim that is what I've observed in my limited experience.

 

[Wookie]

Jax, the excuse we see here is: everyone wants a ScubaPro whizbang or Suunto jazzbang and so we [and the vendors] gangbang. Is it a matter of shops carrying what sells? Or shops carrying what has the highest margin? I suspect it's both. New divers don't know or care. They'll buy what the instructor has, or what the shop pushes, or what they see advertized in every magazine that the shop has floating around.

With regs, local shops whine and cry about how they have to treat your like dirt because 'blaming' the policies of the vendors regarding the lifetime parts "warranty", anything less than official paperwork and they'll treat you like you cheated them by shopping online. When you try to ask for a discount they then whine and cry about how they'll go out of business if they give everything away for "free" (implying that discount == free). This is really just a symptom of poor service, but I believe it is promulgated by the attitudes of the vendors in general. Any online LDS (scuba.com is my LDS and I get air fills there) don't have such an attitude or problem and surprise, they don't carry any SP, Suunto, or AquaLung equipment and aren't SSI shops.

Perhaps I'm reading too far into this but I've seen shops that aren't SSI, don't carry any of those hostile name-brands, and are just awesome places to be. They aren't brainwashed to think you're cheating them if your papers aren't in order. Every single shop I've seen that carries those name brands or is an SSI shop has a certain hostility that, quite frankly, is a turn-off. I hate to generalize so I'll disclaim that is what I've observed in my limited experience.

So, what you're saying here is that you go into the dive shop and ask for a discount, and they don't want to give you one, they are whining and crying, but if you go into Home Depot to buy a Murray riding mower, and they don't give you a discount, they are astute business folk? Or are they cheating bastards? Look, I don't like MAP/MARP either, and I don't think it's fair to dive shops to require them to sell at MAP/MARP, but that's currently how the industry is structured. It's not the dive shops fault that they are tied into dealer agreements that allow them to sell ScubaPro/Aqualung at a certain cost, it's the manufacturers. If you want to see the dive shop of the future, allow the dive shop to sell at what their local market can bear, not what some manufacturer says they have to. Many dive shops will immediately learn that they will no longer be propped up by their dealer agreements, and they will quickly learn to be either astute business folk or they will rapidly close the doors.

You can blame a dive shop for poor (or great) customer service, you can blame them for bad (or good) gas, you can blame them for having poor (or fantastic) quality instructors, but you can't blame them for not steeply discounting to a bunch of whiny divers. If you want steep discounts on brand name gear, buy it overseas.

 

[Rich Keller]

... why would anyone diving recreational nitrox (EAN40 or less) need an O2 clean reg?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

There is either something in there that will react with oxygen or there is not.

 

[Rich Keller]

I am a certified gas blender who has filled a lot of tanks, including nitrox and trimix, over the last few years. I know something about this. I imagine the average nitrox diver reading your explanations is not thinking along the lines of "no problem."

I never said it was "no problem", I said "someone with the proper knowledge and equipment could do this". I think most people would not equate these two statements as meaning the same thing and I would thank you not to continue trying to put words in my mouth or twist the meaning of what I have said. It seems kind of silly that you are trying to convince me that something I have done successfully for decades can not be done, unless I am not the one you want to convince.

 

[redacted]

So, what you're saying here is that you go into the dive shop and ask for a discount, and they don't want to give you one, they are whining and crying, but if you go into Home Depot to buy a Murray riding mower, and they don't give you a discount, they are astute business folk? Or are they cheating bastards? Look, I don't like MAP/MARP either, and I don't think it's fair to dive shops to require them to sell at MAP/MARP, but that's currently how the industry is structured. It's not the dive shops fault that they are tied into dealer agreements that allow them to sell ScubaPro/Aqualung at a certain cost, it's the manufacturers. If you want to see the dive shop of the future, allow the dive shop to sell at what their local market can bear, not what some manufacturer says they have to. Many dive shops will immediately learn that they will no longer be propped up by their dealer agreements, and they will quickly learn to be either astute business folk or they will rapidly close the doors.

You can blame a dive shop for poor (or great) customer service, you can blame them for bad (or good) gas, you can blame them for having poor (or fantastic) quality instructors, but you can't blame them for not steeply discounting to a bunch of whiny divers. If you want steep discounts on brand name gear, buy it overseas.

I just can't blame it all on the MARP manufacturers/distributors. In my limited experience I have found two types of MARP retailer. Those who hide behind MARP and those who will work around MARP to make sales. And, sometimes they are the same shop and it just depends on the customer or the time of the year. Home Depot is really not the type of retailer to use for comparision. Most LDSs are more like car dealers (many like used car dealers). This is pretty much a reputation they seem to have brought upon themselves through their business practices..

 

[cerich]

There is either something in there that will react with oxygen or there is not.

a reg or a tank that has been "O2 cleaned" is no longer "o2 clean once anything but 100% oxygen is used in them....

This industry really has some weird teachings on oxygen clean for scuba. Liek the need to Oxygen clean a second stage??? REALLY??? LOL The darn thing will NEVER reach a high enough PPO2 to ignite. yet people demand it so all my regs have viton on the second stage.

The first stage and tank and the likely hood of ignition is not just a matter of contamination, it's a matter of the PPO2, valve design (and scuba regs are not designed as oxygen regs) and even operator induced issues.

 

[Wookie]

I just can't blame it all on the MARP manufacturers/distributors. In my limited experience I have found two types of MARP retailer. Those who hide behind MARP and those who will work around MARP to make sales. And, sometimes they are the same shop and it just depends on the customer or the time of the year. Home Depot is really not the type of retailer to use for comparision. Most LDSs are more like car dealers (many like used car dealers). This is pretty much a reputation they seem to have brought upon themselves through their business practices..

Yes, and you know I agree with you on that. When Manufacturers finally stop propping up marginal dive shops with pricing policies, we will see the dive shop of the future. The ones that live or die on their own merits.

 

[BDSC]

The future LDS will be drastically different than today. There will be no regs or air fills. Eventually someone will invent this little device that you just bite down on and breath through. I know because I saw it in a James Bond movie once. It must be true.