The LDS of the future

[cerich]

the shop of the future will embrace that the consumer is no longer in the dark on many things and by and large pretty darn smart as well. Start there and the rest follows naturally.

 

[boulderjohn]

I never said it was "no problem", I said "someone with the proper knowledge and equipment could do this". I think most people would not equate these two statements as meaning the same thing and I would thank you not to continue trying to put words in my mouth or twist the meaning of what I have said. It seems kind of silly that you are trying to convince me that something I have done successfully for decades can not be done, unless I am not the one you want to convince.

I never said it couldn't be done, so let's make sure we are not twisting my words either. The subject arose in the context of this thread in relation to the loss of dive shops and what people could do for fills without one--nitrox fills in this case. My point in response to you was that the average nitrox user is not going to be able to do this without a significant outlay of equipment and experience. I believe that is exactly what I said right at the start and in just about every post after that. You responded by showing how cheap and easy it would be, and that is where we disagree.

 

[molina67]

I am a new diver and have been to one of the LDS recommended by my instructor. My first visit there my wife and I were totally ignored for 20 minutes, and not because they were busy, there was only one other person in the store besides us. This is a pretty big and well known dive shop. So we purchased our mask snorkel and fins from them, but vowed not to return. I spoke to my instructor who knows the owner and told me to give them another chance, this time he will meet me there. We get there maybe 15 minutes before he does and again were totally ignored, my instructor ends up helping us, but while he went to the back to check on some equipment we waited for no less the 20 minutes for someone to ring us up... So what did this dive shop loose by us not going back? Well I bought my regulator, wet suits, SPGs, Computers, dive flag, and BCD for myself and wife (about $2,000) from an online retailer who was more than happy to help via email. I have since met the LDS in my area and they are really nice and helpful. I will be checking out there shorties this weekend to take on my trip next month to the Cayman islands.

I own my own business and since we opened our doors to the public we have seen a drop in sales, maybe because of the economy or new business entering into our line of work. When we started we were the only custom embroidery gift shop in the area, today there are probably 5 or 6 others. We stay pretty busy even with the competition because there is so much work to go around. One of our competitors actually lost some customers because as they said terrible customer service, which brings me to my point, Customer service is what makes or breaks an organization, as well as pricing. LDS' need to price themselves competitively to not only their local competition but in this day and age to the internet as well. Yes you get what you pay for and most consumer are willing to take the risk to save a buck.

That's my two cents (more like ten) by the way I'm not only a business owner, I'm retired from the military and also a business major.

 

[leabre]

So, what you're saying here is that you go into the dive shop and ask for a discount, and they don't want to give you one, they are whining and crying ... cheating bastards ...

Most shops around here know me and how deep my pocket book is. Some go out of their way to get a piece of it, others don't.

I usually would not shop at Home Depot expecting to haggle over price. It is not that kind of establishment. But they do offer a price-matching policy of some kind as does many other establishments that normally don't negotiate prices. Pricing to stay in business is one thing, being rude about it and blaming everyone else is a completely other thing.

I think my point was lost to you, or you just took this too personally. My point is that there's endless excuses why they will treat a patron poorly but it's all just a matter of piss-poor customer service. Those shops that have good service will go out of their way for a sale no matter what the vendor says (admittedly sometimes selectively but hopefully you get my point).

 

[Wookie]

Most shops around here know me and how deep my pocket book is. Some go out of their way to get a piece of it, others don't.

I usually would not shop at Home Depot expecting to haggle over price. It is not that kind of establishment. But they do offer a price-matching policy of some kind as does many other establishments that normally don't negotiate prices. Pricing to stay in business is one thing, being rude about it and blaming everyone else is a completely other thing.

I think my point was lost to you, or you just took this too personally. My point is that there's endless excuses why they will treat a patron poorly but it's all just a matter of piss-poor customer service. Those shops that have good service will go out of their way for a sale no matter what the vendor says (admittedly sometimes selectively but hopefully you get my point).

I did get your point, and I don't disagree at all with you, but calling dive shop owners whiny and crybabies doesn't solve anything. Very few folks have spent more on scuba equipment than I have, and I mean in the world. I had an interesting conversation with a dive shop owner (who happens to also sell Air Compressors). I told him that he had lost a sale for a new air compressor because he was $2000 more than the next competitor. He asked why I hadn't told the buyer to come back with a counter offer. I stated that I didn't haggle, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to, either. I expect that when I walk in the door, folks know that I am there to buy something. I expect the price I can walk out with. If the price is too much, or it has to be "ordered", well, hell, I can order stuff myself. I don't haggle, I don't dicker. I don't whine when I don't get a discount. If the price is more than I can afford, or more than I am willing to pay, I walk away. I am the world's worst car shopper. I walk in and ask for the best price. If my research shows that they are making a couple of grand, that's fair and I buy it. If they are jacking me for thousands I walk away, and they lose the sale, the service, the options, etc.

I don't like dive shops where I'm expected to haggle over price, but I don't consider them whiners. I just don't consider them.

 

[Wookie]

And, I can buy my HOG/EDGE equipment directly from Chris. Know what? I don't. I buy them through the Local Dive Shop. Know why? I want that Local Dive Shop there for me when one of those regulators or wings fail. I want that LDS there when I want something that I can't get from HOG/EDGE. As a liveaboard, I can get most things direct from most manufacturers. I still tend to support my LDS, because I want them there when I need them.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

There is either something in there that will react with oxygen or there is not.

Recreational limits on nitrox are EAN40 ... nitrox use of 40% or less does not require any preparation to your regulator that would be different than diving air.

Are you nitrox certified? If so, I would hope you would've known that ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[leabre]

And, I can buy my HOG/EDGE equipment directly from Chris. Know what? I don't. I buy them through the Local Dive Shop. Know why? I want that Local Dive Shop there for me when one of those regulators or wings fail. I want that LDS there when I want something that I can't get from HOG/EDGE. As a liveaboard, I can get most things direct from most manufacturers. I still tend to support my LDS, because I want them there when I need them.

True enough! But there are some LDS that I really don't care whether they succeed or fail. They have earned that sentiment from me. Others I patronize and want them to stay around a while -- they, too, have earned that from me.

One LDS recently underwent new management (same owners) and went from being responsible to downright flaky and so now they are no longer my first, second, or third choice to visit when I need to. But I've had an LDS go from being on my s**t-list to good-graces. It really depends on their attitude towards me, not necessarily their prices. Most often it is a specific employee that will make or break my loyalty.

Having an LDS is a good thing, in any case. But I prefer to be treated with respect, not guilt trips or hostility.

 

[offthewall1]

PADI, SDI and others have been slowly building the business model of the future. There will be very few LDS's - if any.

In the future almost all academic training will be done online. You'll go to the PADI (or other) website and take your class. You will then have a drop down menu of independent dive instructors in your area who are current and insured. It will list their name, number and classes they can teach. You will contact one or more and select the one closest to you or the one you like best. They will inform you how they run classes. They may work closely with other independent instructors or form loose business relationships to share rented pool time. Some will have pools of their own. Some may do confined water training in approved local quarries.

Many of these Instructors will provide rental gear... some will require you to have your own and will assist you in getting great deals or telling you where to buy online. Some may even negotiate kickbacks with the few shops or online sellers that remain.

In most areas the need for air is a moot point. Most all of the training locations (quarries) have their own airfill stations. You will simply get your airfills where you go diving. Again, in some cases the local instructor pool may decide to purchase a shared compressor where it is possible.

Most sales will be online. Shops will be much farther apart and will be more like Walmart... big centers that stock and ship gear. Places like Scubatoys, Dolphin Scuba, Divers Direct etc...

The days of mom and pop dive shops is coming to an end. The manufacturers have killed them. The agencies have kicked them while they were down. I don't feel like getting into all the details here... but many of my older posts spell it our quite clearly.

There are far flng exceptions to every rule... so if you're running a moderately successful LDS... I'm very happy for you. There is no need to spout off about it here. I know the industry. I know what has, is and will happen. The bottom line is the country as a whole has changed and the economy is at least 2 - 3 years away from any sign of recovery. Many now say 10 or more years. These small businesses - dive shops and other's like them... haven't got a prayer.

 

[Wookie]

Since you mention that, Ken, I'll run with it for a moment if I may.

I am a PADI and SDI instructor. I don't really care which one I teach, they are all just alphabet soup and each is as crappy as the other. I tried to teach a DM crossover the other day. It was important to cross the DM to SDI so that they could go on to be a TDI DM for tech liability insurance. I have dived with the DM candidate, he is a PADI DM in good standing, he meets the requirements to be a SDI DM with some tests and skills tests. Imagine my surprise when I couldn't set the price to do a crossover for him. The only way to do the DM course was to sign up for the online course. I, of course, weasled my way around the online course rules, bought him the books and test and required falderol, and completed his crossover.

Where do the training agencies get off telling me how much to charge for a course? I'm considering not renewing, but that doesn't really gain me anything. The training agencies are going the way of the manufacturers in price setting. I'm not happy.