The LDS of the future

[gypsyjim]

My business is jewelery, but our "local" jewelery industry shares many of the same issues as the LDS. The internet is a fact of life we either adapt to, or we die off like Luddites in 19th century England.

We have to reach out to local customers and offer things, such as service, that we can do better, faster, more personally, than can an internet company, that requires a huge volume to profit ( from the shortened margins they use to attract customers). Loyalty, service, knowledge of the local customer, and personal contact are what we can do better, so those are where we need to focus our attentions, rather than trying to out price on the internet.

Another way that some medium sized jewelers have found to compete, is to band together into purchasing groups. When a buying group approaches a manufacturer with serious $$$ to offer, better deals can nearly always be achieved. $$$ speak to a manufacturer, but big $$$$ speak louder to them than a single small operator and their relatively tiny $$ can by them self!

 

[Hoomi]

About the only advantage to the chain stores, like Sport Chalet, over a primarily internet based business, is that the Sports Chalets I've been to have classrooms and access to pools for scuba training. The bookwork can be done online, but the practical sessions done in a pool really cannot be done remotely over the internet. That was another advantage of the LDS - we're dealing with a set team of instructors, that we got to know in the shop and classroom first, before getting in the water with them. It was easier to be comfortable with, and to trust, the instructor in the water, because we already knew them from the shop.

I've been in a Sport Chalet while out in California visiting family, and witnessed customers coming in that knew the scuba department employees, and were known by them in return. An employee in a chain store is not doomed to short-term employment, and may be there plenty long enough to develop relationships with the divers shopping at their store. It just all depends on the management of the store, and the employee in question (which, I suppose, also applies to the Mom and Pop owned scuba shop).

 

[Rich Keller]

A Sport Chalet type of operation could simply hire an independent instructor to teach the classes and if he also works in the store itself pay him for the business he brings in.

 

[mdax]

There are too many scuba stores to support this activity. This imbalance causes many problems. Also contributing is the fact that many people get into the business because it's a fun activity...not because they are good at running a company of any size.

 

[boulderjohn]

You can use a scuba tank full of O2,

About $200

a cross fill whip a nitrox tester and all components must be O2 safe. Cross fill whips are not that expensive

Basic ones without O2 connectors go for about $200.

and most people using nitrox already have a tester.

Not in my experience. I usually see people use the shop equipment. Getting your own is about $300.

...You need to be able to do the math and be able to test the mix when you are done but it is not that hard or expensive though I would not recommend this to someone without a lot of experience.

So for an investment of a mere $700 anyone who already has a lot of experience and knows the mathematical formula can make their own nitrox.

EDIT: I forgot to ask where they get the grade E air to top it off.

 

[mathauck0814]

I forgot to ask where they get the grade E air to top it off.

You'd want to avoid grade E air if you're playing with O2. But for another ~$3k (compressor and filters) you can pump OCA or ~$100 in parts to build a blending stick you can use E-grade in a continuous blending system and pump and blend your own... then you just need some storage banks and a booster and you're off to the races

 

[boulderjohn]

Those who are advocating the use of a coop for gas fills should think about the logistics of such a thing. It is very possible, but it is not at all easy. If you are thinking of setting one up, here are some questions to consider.

1. How will you get the funds for the base costs? There is a large initial cost outlay followed by costs beyond the price of the gas itself. You need to have a compressor and a place to put it. It needs to be maintained properly and inspected. Filters have to be replaced. You will want to have a CO detector. If you are mixing nitrox and/or trimix, there are costs associated with renting and storing the industrial tanks of O₂ and He. (Those hidden costs are surprisingly high.) A good booster costs thousands.

2. How are those costs split among the members of the coop? If everyone chips in evenly, then someone who uses it a lot makes out like a bandit and someone who just wants occasional fills gets screwed.

3. Who owns the materials? Is the coop a legal entity that owns it, meaning that people who enter or leave the coop have no individual ownership? If it is not set up that way, does that mean that someone who leaves the coop is entitled to a refund?

4. How do members get access to the material when it is needed?

5. Who makes sure supplies are kept current? How are members billed for unexpected costs of keeping things current?

6. Who does the fills? Will everyone be allowed to do fills, or will there need to be some level of certification, depending upon whether the person is doing air, nitrox, or trimix?

7. What kind of insurance is needed, especially if uncertified people are doing fills in one member's garage?

8. If people are doing their own fills unsupervised, how well do you trust every member of the coop to account for their gas usage accurately? If Joe walks out with four tanks of trimix, are you sure he didn't screw up the mix during the process, realize it, bleed off the mistake into the atmosphere, and start over?

Years ago the town in which I live, which is really where the homebrewing fad in America started, had a coop so that the local home brewers could get bulk prices for homebrewing supplies. It didn't work well, and they realized that the best way to do it was via a shop where the owners could control all those variables.

 

[Hoomi]

There are too many scuba stores to support this activity. This imbalance causes many problems. Also contributing is the fact that many people get into the business because it's a fun activity...not because they are good at running a company of any size.

This is prevalent in many different businesses - people open or buy a business, because they love the activity and think it would be fun to work in the business, not realizing that it's still work. They often find that their love of the activity begins to fade fast, when it's no longer the hobby they do for fun, but rather something they have to do for a living. If their attitude starts to diminish, it can be apparent to customers, who decide they'd rather patronize a shop where the staff is cheerful and enthusiastic.

As far as your point on "too many scuba stores," that is definitely a problem in some areas. Right now in Tucson, we have three scuba shops, and the closest diving is about 125 miles away at Lake Pleasant (north of Phoenix). The newest shop is a bit diversified, offering bicycling gear as well, though that market also has a lot of competition in this town. I'm wondering just how long, in this economy, Tucson will manage to support three scuba stores. I don't wish ill on any of them, and would be quite happy if all three succeeded, but I sure wouldn't bet any money that we'll still have all three at this time next year.

 

[mathauck0814]

Those who are advocating the use of a coop for gas fills should think about the logistics of such a thing. It is very possible, but it is not at all easy. If you are thinking of setting one up, here are some questions to consider.

1. How will you get the funds for the base costs? There is a large initial cost outlay followed by costs beyond the price of the gas itself. You need to have a compressor and a place to put it. It needs to be maintained properly and inspected. Filters have to be replaced. You will want to have a CO detector. If you are mixing nitrox and/or trimix, there are costs associated with renting and storing the industrial tanks of O₂ and He. (Those hidden costs are surprisingly high.) A good booster costs thousands.

2. How are those costs split among the members of the coop? If everyone chips in evenly, then someone who uses it a lot makes out like a bandit and someone who just wants occasional fills gets screwed.

3. Who owns the materials? Is the coop a legal entity that owns it, meaning that people who enter or leave the coop have no individual ownership? If it is not set up that way, does that mean that someone who leaves the coop is entitled to a refund?

4. How do members get access to the material when it is needed?

5. Who makes sure supplies are kept current? How are members billed for unexpected costs of keeping things current?

6. Who does the fills? Will everyone be allowed to do fills, or will there need to be some level of certification, depending upon whether the person is doing air, nitrox, or trimix?

7. What kind of insurance is needed, especially if uncertified people are doing fills in one member's garage?

8. If people are doing their own fills unsupervised, how well do you trust every member of the coop to account for their gas usage accurately? If Joe walks out with four tanks of trimix, are you sure he didn't screw up the mix during the process, realize it, bleed off the mistake into the atmosphere, and start over?

Years ago the town in which I live, which is really where the homebrewing fad in America started, had a coop so that the local home brewers could get bulk prices for homebrewing supplies. It didn't work well, and they realized that the best way to do it was via a shop where the owners could control all those variables.

All good questions, but as has been demonstrated amply here on Scubaboard a home fill station is something that an individual can reasonably achieve. Is it an investment? Sure. Is it the sort of thing that's unattainable with a little thought and some time? Not at all. A co-op would be a nice scenario, but absent that - you could just become the gas guy for you and your buddies. People make gas out to be rocket science... if your LDS can afford it/figure it out - odds are you can too.

 

[cerich]

MY comments in BOLD

Ah, the dive shop of the future, this should be good. First HOG regs are not designed any different than other popular diaphragms already on the market. They are the same Asian imports as others are using (not exactly, we all spec different things an to be honest my second stage is different from what others are getting in a lot of small details that add up, or even what I started with.)...., just being marketed for less money and sold through on-line sources. (I also have a pretty good and RAPIDLY growing LDS distribution. The difference is i don't lie to them and tell them I don't allow online sales, or "don't know how they got them" (check with your shipping department jerk), I also have it so the LDS can buy and sell against online dealers while maintaining margin, something many BIG brands have sucked at. The issue is not for me to have every dealer but for MANY LDS's my model works very well. When a diver who will buy EDGE/HOG has a local dealer they will use them, when not there is a Internet dealer). The difference is that HOG will allow the owner to pay for a class ($250 at DEMA) so they can spend money on tools and then buy service kits themselves (at retail direct from the manufacturer- BULL you know what. I DO NOT sell parts direct to consumers,nor have I ever. the parts are available thru dealers...) and spend their time servicing their own regulator. Whether this is a good idea or not is up to the individual, I fail to see the logic. Even though I am perfectly capable and equipped I do not change the oil in my car, I pay my mechanic to do it and spend my time more efficiently. I enjoy changing my oil and servicing my regs...but you make a point, about half of the folks that take the TDI-HOG Repair Specialty decide to send their gear to their instructor (who is a HOG dealer) for service...

Yours in diving,

Chris Richardson
EDGE -HOG