The impact of DSLR Phase Out on Underwater Photography

[Interceptor121]

The post is not about alternative to APSC DSLR because those who shoot them typically like an optical viewfinder so they won’t necessarily find an EVF camera attractive.
Tokina has no lenses for Z mount or new EOS M mount as most lenses are compatible but the fisheye zoom af doesn’t work
Fisheye zoom is not comparable to a WWL-1 there is a significant difference in field of view
With regards to Sony APSC mirrorless and AF unless you use a trigger you are at mercy of the onboard TTL flash there was no mention about full frame and generally a guy doing a wedding with ambient light is not a use case for UW use
It is not a coincidence Sony cameras have very little penetration between semi pro the lens choice is limited and the ergonomics are poor once you add adapted lenses this gets even worse
I use an MFT and I have my own fisheye zoom but this is not mainstream and costs almost double than the tokina set as I need a speedboster and a port adapter but this is not the point

the point is the large part of shooters who win competitions use a Nikon D500 and this camera is end of line and no new models are being developed.

 

[stuartv]

But, you said this is bad. And it only makes sense to conclude that it is bad if there is no similar cost option that would perform just as well. So, is that the case? No alternative to a D500 that can perform just as well for a similar overall cost?

And, yes, Tokina does not currently have a lens for mirrorless that is comparable to the 10-17 for crop sensor DSLR. My question was, if they come out with one, will the point of your blog still stand?

As for optical VF versus EVF, I don't think that matters in any significant way. That seems to be a point of personal preference. So what if the D500 shooters have to get used to an EVF? If there is an alternative that gives comparable performance at a comparable cost, then having the APS-C DSLR go extinct just does not seem like any kind of big deal.

In the long run, it seems like mirrorless is going to make all DSLRs go extinct (note, I said in the long run). If so, the longer it drags out, the more resources are diluted between DSLR and mirrorless doing neither thing as well as they could be done.

 

[Nemrod]

In the long run, it seems like mirrorless is going to make all DSLRs go extinct (note, I said in the long run). If so, the longer it drags out, the more resources are diluted between DSLR and mirrorless doing neither thing as well as they could be done.

Yes, it has been a surprise it has taken this long. And for this to happen there will have to be a full suite of lenses and my bet is that it will happen in due course. And the CEO of Sony says they are aware of opportunities and intend to address telephoto and then WA in both E and FE formats. And when (if) that happens, good bye dSLR.

N

 

[Interceptor121]

No there are cameras already in the segment that are near to D500 but not exactly the same
Those formats have been around also a long time and we still have to see a fisheye zoom even full frame don't have one. MFT and APSC Mirrorless can use a tokina on a metabones but is not exactly the same
But the shooters that use APSC are unlikely to go mirrorless I think they will go DSLR full frame first
With regards to choice of lenses Sony is a mess 30 50 90 mm for macro what the hell is that
And how many years and still no fisheye?
No doubt this will be a blow to the many D500 users and there are a few

 

[WS007]

Interesting discussion here. I read it just now, since there is plenty of time during this unpleasant exit lock we have here in Austria...

I believe, that the end of APS-C DSLR camera bodies will not have a great impact on UW photography for three reasons:
#1.: AF in mirrorless bodies is very good now and comes, at least, close to DSLR cameras. E.g. the recently released Canon EOS 90D has even better AF, when in "Liveview" mode, i.e. when the mirror is not used than in the "regular DSLR" mode: Canon EOS 90D Review
#2.: The physical difference between DSLR and corresponding mirrorless lenses is mostly the flange distance and a DSLR lens can be easily adapted, while the opposite direction, from mirrorless to DSLR, does not work. As far as I know, all manufacturers offer such adapters and I did not hear about any problems with them. (Of course manufactureres scatter news that the shorter flange distance offers new optical construction possibilities etc... . While this is not false, the driving force is mostly that they know we all have already collected a most of existing gems and now they want us to buy new ones...).
#3.: Already now in critical conditions, when there is little light available for the optical viewfinder, many DSLR UW photographers use their cameras in "Live view" mode - i.e. they use the DSLRs in mirrorless mode. A dedicated mirrorless camera will probably have much better AF performance than a DSLR in "live-view" mode...

What will likely happen is that DSLR UW photographers will sooner or later acquire the mirrorless bodies und use all existing lenses/ports/extensions via adapter. This requires, however, that AF plus sensor are a real improvement over the existing DSLR bodies, otherwise there is no reason to upgrade, especially when upgrade will mean a "downgrade" in performance, as is e.g. the case with Nikon Z50 vs. D500 (depending on the manufacturer's R&D department this time may be sooner or later. While Nikon is not so far, it seems that Canon has already reached the point). Maybe even later, when new types of lenses, better suited for UW photography as existing ones, will appear, people will also upgrade the lenses...

I am just watching with interest, personally I use mirrorless (MFT) all the time...

Wolfgang

 

[Nemrod]

I really hate the demise of the SLR camera, even the digital ones. The VF are much better and you actually see what you are seeing. They do not wash out when pointed into the sun (shooting sunballs) and they do not have that jittery lag I see in all mirrorless VFs, all of them. These are among several reasons I did not invest in the "best" mirrorless because none of them are better than a SLR though some are good enough to get by with. I think there is still room for development of the APS-C dSLR, in the art of photography, a defeatured camera maybe with a sensor that can be swapped out, one for color art, one for B&W art. I know this thread is about UW applications but it is the surface photography that drives camera development, then they get adapted to UW photography thus all of the compromises we have to deal with as UW photographers. I am not a fish, I live on the rock, I like photography above and below and I think the loss of dSLR for surface photography is a worser thing that for UW.

N

 

[Interceptor121]

I am not sure I agree with Nemrod on OVF which is really the main legacy of DSLR. The key benefit of an EVF especially on land is that you see what the sensor sees and you know when the image will clip and how it will come out before you take the shot.
I hear countless stories of OVF having more dynamic range but then the image comes completely different and you need to review on the LCD what actually came out and correct. In terms of lag the last EVFs from Panasonic that I have on two camera is amazing and has zero lag or I can't feel one

 

[Nemrod]

I would of course think the OVF would have more DR. Since the human eye is the receiver and is looking at the actual light reflected from a mirror and split by the pentaprism. And no current camera sensor matches the human eye for DR. So, yes, it would be needed to dial the exposures in by reviewing on the live view LCD or your then time warped back into film days where you make educated guesses. So the live view/review is a good thing to make corrections in the field. And when manually focusing the split image or ground glass of a SLR is so much better.

What Canon APS-C dSLR would be the best remaining choice to build around? All of this stuff depreciates by 50% as soon as it is purchased and unboxed. Maybe next summer I will pick up a clean used Nauticam/Canon APS-C rig! Then I would have something to put my Tokina on at last.

James

 

[Interceptor121]

Current best options are Nikon D500 or Canon 90D, the latter has an hybrid AF on the LCD so you can start getting used to it. It would reuse your Tokina.
No idea if Nauticam will make a housing and if it fits the 80D housing. To have a look at some amazing images of this set up loop up my friend Paolo Isgro he shoots an 80D

Paolo Isgro

 

[WS007]

It is right that DR of human retina vision is still way superior to technical realization on on any sensor (not so the resolution, i.e. the number of cone/rod cells). However, when I am diving and look through my mask, it is very difficult for me to take advantage of this superior DR. Normally I only can roughly adjust and rate quality of the images later on the computer screen, when I am back to the surface. To me OVF in connection with my retina does not make a difference in practice, compared to viewing the EVF (where, of course, a lot of information is lost). But I must say I started UW photography only in 2017, with mirrorless MFT, so noe practical experience UW with OVF. OVF I know only from my old over the water days, when I was young, in the 70ies to 90ies, when I had a Minolta 303b mirror reflex camera for film. I can assure everybody that the film cannot compare to any digital camera sensor even with 20+ years technology behind from now. Not in resolution, nor DR, nor colour reproduction, not to speak about the possibilities of postprocessing - no comparison to dark chamber...

Regarding the Tokina (Nikon version): I did not know that AF is not possible with the new Nikon bodies. I have Tokina in Canon version and use it adapted with 0.71x Metabones speedbooster on Oly MFT - not any problem with AF. This lens is not such a great loss in these days, since the Nikon 8-15mm fisheye zoom with 1.4x teleconverter is available. Much better optics, but I read there are compatibility problems with teleconverter...

All the best, Wolfgang