The impact of DSLR Phase Out on Underwater Photography

[Interceptor121]

With Nikon no longer producing APSC DLSR and Canon releasing the last edition of their APSC with 90D things may take a more complex turn

My reflection on this piece

The Impact of APSC DSLR End on Underwater photography

 

[Nemrod]

But both Canon and Nikon are still committed to APS-C with new mirrorless cameras and Sony has recommitted if there was ever any doubt. I argued with some on this board ten years ago or so that mirrorless would take over the middle ground from dSLR cameras. This based on size, performance and cost. Especially for underwater imaging.

I think dSLR will hang on in the FF category as this is where professional photographers and serious amateurs are willing to spend buckets of money for the 10/10 performance instead of 8/10 or 9/10 they can get with APS-C or M4:3. These folks will not be deterred by size of the system or monetary factors and I could say the same for FF mirrorless though they are not as large and bulky there is plenty of room for them to cost as much or more.

I am not happy for this, I just do not understand why the APS-C or M4:3 dSLRs were/are so big. Compared to my old Nikon film SLRs or the OM2 I owned. The things are huge and unwieldy for even surface photography compared to the Sony A6XXX series which BTW, I like the ergonomics of, an opinion. And Sony being profitable in their consumer imaging products is getting (a little more) attention from outside lens makers and supposedly Sony relaxed their proprietary stance somewhat regarding such.

I still think there is a place for a compact dSLR but that niche is becoming very constrained now.

Yeah, when Nikon, Canon and Olympus catch up with Sony AF they will have something! LOL .

James

 

[Interceptor121]

I think DSLR has max two years canon won’t release any and Sony makes sensors for nikon and they are done
canon nikon mirror less apsc are rubbish and are not catching up any time soon
By the way sony AF on mirrorless is crap especially full frame
Where did you get it that’s good? Is the slowest system on the market except video where you don’t use AF anyway

 

[Nemrod]

By the way sony AF on mirrorless is crap especially full frame
Where did you get it that’s good? Is the slowest system on the market except video where you don’t use AF anyway

I am sure you have some data somewhere that says otherwise but that is contrary to most reviews and what I have experienced while shopping for cameras over the last four years now. And what little time I have had my little camera, it is fast with focus, no two ways about it. Some of the AF depends upon the lens and of course other factors, I find it plenty fast and nothing I have seen thus far makes me think it is not at least fast or accurate enough.

I like your thoughts, interesting your recent articles certainly are, keep up the good work questioning. Kind of like a UW camera myth buster and skeptic all wrapped up in one. Thanks.

James

 

[Interceptor121]

James
Aurofocus as marketed by Sony for fast moving subjects in burst mode may be relevant for action sports and wildlife
For underwater what matters is the shutter lag on a single shot with flash or trigger. All sony cameras are laggy compared to others with speeds over 200ms which is enough to miss shots underwater
Obviously coming from a Canon compact this is still good but I can ensure you all mirrorless from panasonic and olympus are faster and also canon and nikon. Maybe once shutter is engaged sony will have a better hit rate on burst but if you miss the first shot it won’t matter ok birds for example
You need to know what to read of test data as most is irrelevant to us
Also do not read Sony published shutter lag from half press look at how long it take from complete cycle to press shutter achieve focus and shoot with the flash as that is what you will be doing
Another drawback of Sony is that they only have ttl flash so you cant speed it up by putting it in manual

 

[Interceptor121]

To give you an idea this is data of the A6500
Full Autofocus,
Center AF area
AF-S mode
Auto Flash Enabled

0.292 second
Time from fully pressing shutter button to image capture, with the lens already at the proper focal distance setting, TTL Auto flash enabled.

Flash Recycling

3.0 seconds
Flash at maximum output.

So it will take near to 0.3 seconds to take a shot and you could wait max 3 seconds to take another shot with the internal flash. This is the single biggest issue of the A6XXX series. That you can take 230 shots of a basketball player does not matter to our use case

 

[Nemrod]

Let's not derail your compact dSLR discussion with Sony AF systems. Or now, flash recycle time. I have the latest UT tigger. The .02 seconds is for single shot AF, pre-AF off. The flash recycle time is an issue with nearly all onboard flash cameras underwater where most shots are with strobes, unlike surface photography, and the strobes are being triggered by that onboard flash and people seem to like sTTL, at least when it works.

James

 

[Interceptor121]

Good purchase on the trigger. No idea why people like sTTL is most time incorrect anyway

 

[stuartv]

@Interceptor121:

In your blog post you say that there is no significant difference between sensors for m43 and APS-C. Unless I missed it, you never made any follow-on case for why APS-C for u/w won't be replaced by m43. I mean, your conclusion is that the demise of DSLR APS-C is not good for u/w photographers. But, you never explained why m43 is not a perfectly good alternative. Are you saying it is solely because there is no equivalent to the Tokina 10-17 for m43?

Also, in one of your posts, you explain your position on why Sony is not satisfactory. Slowest AF and you can only use the strobe in TTL.

If you are specifically talking about the Sony APS-C models, it would have helped me, anyway, understand your point better. Because I do not believe all of that is true for Sony FF. I am sure that I have full manual control of my strobes on my a7rIV (except for not being able to turn them completely off from the camera).

As for slow AF, well, I don't shoot the way you described, so the slowness of your method is irrelevant to me. I never go from no focus to a full shutter release all at once. I always focus first (still testing to decide between AF-C and a mode with Tracking). Then release the shutter when the time is right. Perhaps I am simply not good or sensitive enough, but I have never noticed an issue with the shutter releasing too slowly. And I have not yet even played with the options in the setting to control shutter release priority.

Further, I can relate one anecdote, which was when I let a semi-pro (meaning, he shoots paid gigs - weddings and concerts - but he doesn't do it full-time) photographer friend of mine play with my a7rIV for a bit. He shoots a high end Canon DSLR (can't remember the model). One of the very first things out of his mouth after starting to shoot it - taking pictures of his dog running around - was "wow! The AF on this is FAST!"

In conclusion: If there is not a high quality option for shooting WA with m43, then I guess I could possibly agree with the point of your blog. But, since I was shooting WA with a kit lens and WWL-1 using my Olympus E-M10 for the last few years and I thought the quality of that combo was very good, I have to say I'm skeptical that it is true. The WWL-1 may be more expensive that an inexpensive dome to use with a Tokina 10-17. But, how does the overall cost of an m43 WA rig compare to the overall cost of a Canikon APS-C DSLR WA rig?

And for macro, I suspect that m43 is as good or maybe even superior to the APS-C DSLR options. Yes? If my main interest were in shooting macro, I would definitely have stuck with m43 instead of going FF.

 

[stuartv]

Oh, and, if Tokina starts to make a 10-17 that is comparable to their current one - or another manufacturer makes an equivalent - for the new mirrorless APS-C mounts, doesn't that render your whole point kind of, well, moot?