The great Spare Air / SpareAir topic

If Spare Air was offered to use free on a dive boat would you use it?

  • yes

    Votes: 16 64.0%
  • no

    Votes: 9 36.0%
  • I would rather no answer

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .

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Donnie:
To All,

I was just wondering...

On several of the posts that I have been reading some of the individuals make comments that make it sound like products like "Spare Air" as well as other "O.O.A." alternatives are controversial subjects. (Similar to "Solo Diving")

Well... I started looking around for threads addressing these products, (Because I wanted to know "Why they were so Controversial,) and was not able to find any.

"Is there a Problem with these products... Or am I interpreting the posts wrong?" The "Spare Air" thing seems like a pretty good idea to me... Or am I wrong?

If there is controversy over these type of products... please keep it civil! :wink:

Have a great day!

Donnie


My search turned up this in 0.001 sec,

http://www.scubaboard.com/t7997.html

Try Spareair as one word.

MB sums it up wonderfully :wink:
 
MB:
MATH! . . . they'll gain just 2-4 breaths of air max in a real OOA situation.

And the rest of your argument was so darned well-reasoned! Where is the math to support this exaggeration? It must have included a very panicked diver on a very deep dive.

I definitely go along with the argument that the Spare Air is more limited in its functionality than the advertisements lead one to believe (big surprise there!).

The Spare Air is just a bit awkward to access, and it does not have a great deal of air supply. But it can be a valuable asset to a diver who KNOWS how many breaths/how many minutes it will give them if needed and is level-headed enough to use it; this also includes that they will practice with it from time to time. A big plus to this piece of equipment is that it packs well, is OK to fly with when depressurized, and simple to fill before the first dive on a trip. Since travel diving requires me to dive with a single regulator (first stage) on a small yoke-valve tank, I appreciate the additional 4-6 minute supply the Spare Air offers me within easy reach on my hip.

theskull
 
theskull:
And the rest of your argument was so darned well-reasoned! Where is the math to support this exaggeration? It must have included a very panicked diver on a very deep dive.

I definitely go along with the argument that the Spare Air is more limited in its functionality than the advertisements lead one to believe (big surprise there!).

The Spare Air is just a bit awkward to access, and it does not have a great deal of air supply. But it can be a valuable asset to a diver who KNOWS how many breaths/how many minutes it will give them if needed and is level-headed enough to use it; this also includes that they will practice with it from time to time. A big plus to this piece of equipment is that it packs well, is OK to fly with when depressurized, and simple to fill before the first dive on a trip. Since travel diving requires me to dive with a single regulator (first stage) on a small yoke-valve tank, I appreciate the additional 4-6 minute supply the Spare Air offers me within easy reach on my hip.

theskull

MB said a REAL OOA situation, Absolute max at 40m, 6 breaths :11:

I've heard a rep at a dive show tell ME to skip breath from 30m :11:

ROTFLOL :D

It says it all........................
 
theskull:
And the rest of your argument was so darned well-reasoned! Where is the math to support this exaggeration? It must have included a very panicked diver on a very deep dive.... I appreciate the additional 4-6 minute supply the Spare Air offers me...

Hey don't let my wife hear you say that I can be reasonable...

You sound like an experienced, established diver, probably quite calm in the water. Maybe a SAC of .5 cubic feet? And you've tested the volume of your lungs, so you have a pretty good idea of the volume of air each breath. So maybe a stuff-falls-apart event doesn't double or triple or quadruple your breathing rate (and volume). And you are sharp and practice these sorts of events, so you don't fumble around at depth before ascending, but begin an immediate ascent so your breathing volume actually does decrease in the first 20 seconds. But you were at 99+' so each breath still requires 4 times the volume of a breath at the surface. Of course this decreases as you ascend. And the bottle was completely full, because you didn't test it or make a quick adjustment to the pool filter the week before, SO you have a complete fill of just over 2 cubic feet of air. OK, 2 breaths is too conservative - I yield on that.

I grant you that your milage may vary, and a calmer, more experienced diver might manage an ascent with this bottle. But something tells me that a calmer, more experienced diver would (a) have been checking his/her air more frequently, (b) been using an acceptable buddy protocol that would enable air sharing, and (c) use a pony with a more acceptable supply of air...
 
Spare Air:

Its better than a free ascent.

I was happy to sell mine for $100
 
MB:
Hey don't let my wife hear you say that I can be reasonable...
I grant you that your milage may vary, and a calmer, more experienced diver might manage an ascent with this bottle. But something tells me that a calmer, more experienced diver would (a) have been checking his/her air more frequently, (b) been using an acceptable buddy protocol that would enable air sharing, and (c) use a pony with a more acceptable supply of air...

Keep your wife away from this website. 'Cause now you're being totally reasonable.

Is the Spare Air a valuable tool for some divers in some diving situations? I sure think so.

Is it a must-have item or a replacement for good air management habits and buddy skills? Absolutely not.

Happy and safe diving to everyone,
theskull
 
Donnie:
To All,

I was just wondering...

On several of the posts that I have been reading some of the individuals make comments that make it sound like products like "Spare Air" as well as other "O.O.A." alternatives are controversial subjects. (Similar to "Solo Diving")

Well... I started looking around for threads addressing these products, (Because I wanted to know "Why they were so Controversial,) and was not able to find any.

"Is there a Problem with these products... Or am I interpreting the posts wrong?" The "Spare Air" thing seems like a pretty good idea to me... Or am I wrong?

If there is controversy over these type of products... please keep it civil! :wink:

Have a great day!

Donnie
Start with these. Then try rec.scuba.
http://www.scubaboard.com/t6403.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/t39174.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/t958.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/t7997.html
 
Spare air - about as much use to a scuba diver as a snorkle, ie absolutely no use at all.
 
MB:
The controversy involves whether the marketing of a product is so successful that it inadvertantly creates unintended hazzards.

Spare Air is a classic case study in marketing. Who among us wouldn't think its a great idea to have a little bonus when running low on air. So take a nice, small, compact product, get it introduced into a very cool Baywatch series, keep it simple by removing the need for extra stuff (like those silly complicated regulators), then market it in ads that show how you'll never run out of air! Just the right formula for an instant sales advantage, particular to novice divers or their worried parents.

So where's the controversy? To understand the utility of the product, you'd have to do the dreaded M word -- MATH! A diver who knows his/her breathing rate (SAC or RMV or other variation) will know how many normal breaths of air are in the Spair Air cylinder, then would calculate how many OHMIGAWDI'MOUTOFAIR breaths are in that same bottle, and then factor in depth, where it could take 2,3,4 or more times the amount of air to get that same single breath at the surface. A little complex, especially since most divers have only a cursory awreness of how that all works (thanks to the other conroversy -- the weekend certification class).

As a result, there are lots of folks who shell out $200+ for a product, and then are convinced that it will benefit them in an OOA situation. The Problem: in the real world, they'll gain just 2-4 breaths of air max in a real OOA situation. So what's wrong with that? During the time they are fumbling around with it, they could be getting to the surface. AND, for the same price, they could:

1. Learn more about their own real air consumption;
2. Learn to monitor their air and become better, problem-preventive divers;
3. Purchase equipment that really holds enough air for an emergency.

And there would not have been a dumbing down of the importance of air management, or the sale of a very false sense of security.

And for NO price they could improve their buddy skills, practice air sharing, develop an SPG check habit, etcetcetc.

Its only controversial to those who stand to make or lose money on the sale, or a sense of pride in their wise decision to buy one. OTOH, they are very cool when you are cleaning the bottom of the pool (as long as you're certified and know not to hold your breath - its still compressed air <albeit not very much> and you can still embolize in a pool).


First as you say, you're lucky to get a couple of breaths out of one of these things especially in an "OH S....!!" situation.

Next, the cost, I believe they are abt $280 or so. For abt $129 for a 30 cuft tank, $150 for base reg, and $30 for a mount, $309 (aprox), you have a real redundant source.
 
To All,

Thanks for all of your input!!! "SpareAir" has always been one of those items of curiosity for my. Yet... I have always thought to myself that continued discipline in keeping my skills sharp, staying in the habit of always reading my S.P.G., combined with using only "good quality equipment" would most likely eliminate the need for such an item.

I don't do any dives that would require a redundant air supply... but again... I was just really curious as to why there was so much controversy. It sounds like for a little extra money, I could go to "Doubles" and really have a really slick set up! But again... I'm not doing any technical diving that would require such an item.

"MB" thanks for a very articulate explanation! Seems that you definitely have a knack for teaching! (And the "M" word!) Hee!... Hee!...

Thanks again everyone!

Donnie
 

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