The "Great Service" Problem

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boulderjohn

Technical Instructor
Scuba Instructor
Divemaster
Messages
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Location
Boulder, CO
# of dives
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Although this post/thread was inspired by seeing a thread praising Shearwater, I promise I am not referring to Shearwater. I am actually talking about more than one product here. In fact, as I edit this post I keep thinking of more examples with different products, so please don't try to guess who I am talking about.

Scuba equipment is expensive, and if you, like me, purchase a lot of it, you are a careful consumer. You look for great value, meaning high quality at a reasonable price. You also look for signs of service, and some companies, like Shearwater, have great reputations for their quality service. You see posts attesting to that regularly. In contrast, if you have been around long enough, you have seen examples of the opposite, where people regularly complain about service from certain companies. When I get bad service on something in any area of my life, that company gets no more of my business, and people hear about it. I had a company flat out lie to me about a drysuit repair they had made, and that experience completely soured me on them.

In this thread I want to talk about a different problem, where great service recommendations is a actually a sign of trouble.

A product has been around for a long time, and lots of people have raved about the company's willingness to fix problems with the product. If you condense the phrase a little, it comes out to "lots of people are having problems with the product." In one specific product, I personally know a lot of people who use it, and most of them use it because I have recommended it to them. I know some people who are in the market for that product now, but they are not even considering that company because they see those people regularly sending it in (and paying the postage to do so) so they can get that great service, service that would not have been needed if the product were better made.

I recently purchased a certain product that will go unnamed. It did not work out of the box. I contacted the company (famous for its service) and was told to send one of the parts in (at my expense) for repair. It was repaired, and that repair fixed a problem that that should have been identified before the product was shipped. (Don't you think you should check to see if a product works before you put it in the box?) Now that I had it working, I was able to use it, and when I did, I was thereby able to learn that another part did not work out of the box. I contacted the company and was told to send it in (at my expense) for repair. Again, it was something that should have been caught before shipping.

Early in my tech career, I noticed the same problem with drysuits. I was not happy with mine, in part for the service experience mentioned above. Certain experienced tech diving acquaintances raved about their brand and the service they received, but I noticed they only had their suits with them on about 2/3 of the dive trips because they had to send them in for repairs so often. I decided I would never own that brand of drysuit.

There really isn't much to talk about in terms of discussion. I am just warning people to look carefully before purchasing expensive equipment. Lots of testimonials about great service can be a good sign, but it can also be a red flag.
 
I was just reminded that someone I knew who worked at a major electronics store told me about 20 years ago that the companies making those electronics (TVs, etc.) had realized that it was cheaper to replace faulty products than to pay for the quality control procedures that would eliminate them. I suppose something like that might be happening here.
 
I never hear anything about most of the products that I dive with, which is very encouraging.

Seriously,

THANK YOU OXYCHEQ for making an incredible wing!

THANK YOU SCUBAPRO for making the greatest regulator on the planet!
 
the companies making those electronics (TVs, etc.) had realized that it was cheaper to replace faulty products than to pay for the quality control procedures that would eliminate them.

Yeah, but the reason it's cheaper for them is because they are being subsidized by customers having to pay to send the products in. If the company covered that shipping too, would it still be cheaper?
 
I recently purchased a certain product that will go unnamed. It did not work out of the box. I contacted the company (famous for its service) and was told to send one of the parts in (at my expense) for repair. It was repaired, and that repair fixed a problem that that should have been identified before the product was shipped. (Don't you think you should check to see if a product works before you put it in the box?) Now that I had it working, I was able to use it, and when I did, I was thereby able to learn that another part did not work out of the box. I contacted the company and was told to send it in (at my expense) for repair. Again, it was something that should have been caught before shipping.
In both of those cases I would be expecting the company to cover the shipping cost of the return and the re-ship after the repair. If not, let the company know you will be disputing the original charge with your credit card company.

Paying to return an item because you changed your mind (even though some companies cover that as well), is far different than HAVING to return an item because it was defective.
 
Shearwater has great service, OTOH if it weren't for the great service I would've thrown my Terics in the trash. Sometime after the sixth issues I had.

I would rather have a rock solid product that I never have to send in for service except once in a blue moon like my B&W speakers, than a product with great service that I am taking in monthly.
 
A friend of mine had an OSTC. It had been great, no problems in the three years he had had it.

Unfortunately, he left it on a bench as the boat was being loaded, and a twinset landed on it, ....crunch... one very crushed display.
He sent it back to OSTC, their comment was that it wasn't really a warranty failure. Dropping twinsets on computers was not covered under warranty, and it was three years old! They did however, offer 30% off the replacement. An offer he took. It's still running fault free 8 years later.

Now that is customer service.
 
In both of those cases I would be expecting the company to cover the shipping cost of the return and the re-ship after the repair. If not, let the company know you will be disputing the original charge with your credit card company.

Paying to return an item because you changed your mind (even though some companies cover that as well), is far different than HAVING to return an item because it was defective.
Yes, if we're talking major red flags, the company charging for shipping when something is defective right out of the box is completely unacceptable. That's an immediate chargeback, in my opinion. Under many circumstances you even have the explicit legal right to do so, but in general credit card companies are very responsive if you have a clear case of "this part of my brand-new product is busted."
 
Although this post/thread was inspired by seeing a thread praising Shearwater, I promise I am not referring to Shearwater. I am actually talking about more than one product here. In fact, as I edit this post I keep thinking of more examples with different products, so please don't try to guess who I am talking about.

I often thought about that myself, when I worked at shops, while in school -- especially the products that were, either frequently returned; or else, saw needed service, far too soon after purchase; and whose companies dubiously prided themselves on rapid customer service. That extended to regulators with piss-poor hoses; those that developed cracks in the plastic; and to the early computers, of various brands, which all-too frequently flooded; or crapped-out, right out of the box.

It reminded me of when I purchased my most recent computer. The clerk immediately asked whether I wished to purchase insurance, before I was even handed a box. "What's wrong with it?" was my reply.

The clerk was at a loss; said nothing.

One thing that I have noticed of today's local dive shop, is their frequent unwillingness to ship back faulty equipment on their dime, after a purchase. Too frequently, I have heard complaints from fellow divers, that they were left responsible to ship back products to companies -- some of whom rhyme with "clearwater."
 
I was just reminded that someone I knew who worked at a major electronics store told me about 20 years ago that the companies making those electronics (TVs, etc.) had realized that it was cheaper to replace faulty products than to pay for the quality control procedures that would eliminate them. I suppose something like that might be happening here.
Someone who works at a major electronics store really only sees the tail end of a product lifecycle. So take that with a grain of salt.

When you consider the entire lifecycle of a product, it is almost always far cheaper to catch defects early than to try to catch them at the end of the line. Now, sometimes, when you miss those early opportunities, it is cheaper to replace, rather than repair. Still, it would have been cheaper to get the design right out of the gate. Generally, the only time I’ve seen hesitancy to fix a design flaw is when the flaw exists in the board itself. Respinning a fab (circuit board) is expensive. But, in those cases, we would still usually fix early by reworking the board early in the assembly process.

For the record, I have close to 23 years in manufacturing. Much of that in electronics, and a lot in high reliability industries, such as Defense, Aerospace, and Medical. I have held product in my hands that is now on Mars along with many other things I can’t really talk about. I was a Regional Quality Manager for a very large company, and have also been a Certified Six Sigma Blackbelt.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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