The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[SeaJay]

I agree with sasdasdaf... When I get useful information from my LDS, I'll patronize them.

Here's what I do when I need gear:

I go online and check out what other divers have to say about a piece of gear... That means checking places like The Deco Stop and right here on Scubaboard. I also check out what Rodales has to say ( http://www.scubadiving.com ) and try to narrow it down. Then I find a way to try the gear out... Typically, this involves finding a buddy who owns said gear or checking out the gear at a LDS. Since I'm often traveling, it could be any nondescript LDS in the southeastern U.S.

I also subscribe to magazines such as Scuba Diving and Skin Diver... I might also check those out, as well as some other online sources.

Once I've got a good idea what I want, I'll go back to the LDS and tell them that I'm about to purchase said gear. By that point, I'm a relatively informed consumer - their worst kind of customer.

Nine times out of ten, I get really bad information at that point from the LDS' salespeople. Ignorance and cluelessness often reigns supreme. It can be very frustrating to be informing them of a piece of gear. Nonetheless, having made up my mind and having checked out prices, I'll tell them the best price I've found... Which is usually online. Since I'm under the impression that buying face-to-face, and "today" is better than doing it mail-order, I give them the opportunity to sell me the gear I want at a price that's reasonable. Believe it or not, I'm usually willing to buy at the LDS for about a 10% premium, for warranty and setup reasons.

Just a note... I always include online shipping prices in the price that I get online (that's only fair!)

Anyway, the bottom line is that I've purchased nearly 100% of the several thousand dollars' worth of equipment online... And I've never had a problem.

In fact, the only problem that I have is with the clueless misinformation that my LDS tries to feed me... It can be really pathetic, and very irritating, when you can plainly see how silly they are...

Surprisingly, my LDS is not unhappy to see me when I walk in the door. Sure, they're not happy that all of my equipment I've purchased elsewhere, but I still buy there trips here and there, and occassionally I find items like tanks a better deal to buy through them... Since the great $130 price that LP might have doesn't include shipping. Add that in, and the $130 tank is a $155 tank... And for $170 I can get a new tank from my LDS with a free fill or two.

I'm just about ready to do my first service on my regs... Which I purchased from LP. Since I bought them there, I'll be paying $40 or so to have them serviced; but I can pick which shop. You bet they're still happy to see me... It's still $40, after all.

The bottom line is that the LDS's need to clean up their act... Misinformation and clueless salespeople are the worst. Manufacturers putting a floor on their prices isn't fair either. That's just stupid.

Wanna make your purchases guilt-free? Talk to the LDS about EVERYTHING. Tell them that you're about ready to buy a reg or computer, and tell them what's going on and where you are in your purchase. Do your research. When you're ready to buy, bring them your best deal.

If they blow you out of the store, then buy it somewhere else. Shops that do that are likely to not be around long anyway. The really good ones - even those that can't match the price - will offer things to make up for the price difference... And can still win your business.

If they don't win your business, then let's face it; they lost that sale fair and square. No guilt involved.

 

[ElectricZombie]

You should not feel bad just because you bought gear online. If LeisurePro has the gear you want for a lot less, I say go with LeisurePro. If the LDS can come close to LeisurePro's pricing, I would buy it locally.

Most of my gear has come from the LDS, however, I have had so many problems with them that I will probably buy online next time.

The shops around here are clueless when it comes to gear and are not even remotely helpful. They are not giving me any legitimate reasons to spend my money there and apparently don't want or need my business.

If the LDS can't offer what I want at a reasonable price, I'm forced to purchase elsewhere.

 

[docmartin]

pasley, regarding your 10 points: leisure pro has all these costs, too. after all they are not just an online company but a dive store with the most incredible in-stock selection, good customer service and sales people that are more knowledgeable than in 90% of the dive stores i've been to. they are also less inclined to push a certain brand and we all know about the price. tough to beat.

 

[GlockDiver]

ScubaMarc once bubbled...
If U are going to by from LP, why don't U also get your airfills there too. Just remember if U go to your LDS just for fills, the LDS will fade away and U will need to buy a compressor from LP.

Be careful what you wish for...

 

[WileEDiver]

sasdasdaf once bubbled...
When I find a dive shop that has employees that actually give good advice, I will be happy to pay a little more to compensate for that extra service. Until then, I will continue to buy online.

It boggles my mind that my LDS should get pissed off if I buy gear from elsewhere... after all, shouldn't I pay 50% more than I have to just to patronize my LDS? Give me a break.

Your LDS will sell you whatever they are dealers for and will sell according to the manufacturer's set prices. I get more choice online and can get the same items for less, so why should I buy locally?

The only thing my LDS is good for is filling tanks, and they can't even do that properly.

Sounds like you need to find a different LDS!

 

[Detonate]

Don't forget to ask your LDS what they will offer you as far as price. If you are buying just a ScubaPro reg, they probably can't beat the price. But when you start getting into multiple items, LDS have a lot of pull.

i.e. Here is what I'm buying:
ScubaPro MK25/S600 Reg
Zeagle Escape BCD
Viper Octo
Aries Atmos Elite Hoseless Computer with Transmitter
BCD Hanger
3 Clips
2 1 LBLS Softweights
2 3 LBLS Softweights

Cost $1400 + Tax

Price that online.....

 

[redacted]

Detonate once bubbled...

Cost $1400 + Tax

Price that online.....

But you may want to reconcider the regulator. Mixing brands may lead to service problems in the future. You apparently found one LDS that carries both SP & Dacor. You might want to check if you can find others in the DFW area. Or be prepared to deal with two shops & maybe get jerked around if the Viper has a problem and somebody has to determine if it is the first or second stage. An R190 shouldn't be but a few buck more.

 

[Detonate]

I'll keep that in mind. He said in the package "Any Octo"

I specifically requested the Viper because I've had good results with it in the past, and it's nice and small.

 

[SeaJay]

The Dacor octo also has an ambidextrous design... That is, there's no left or right, up or down... So it can be used as your own, given to your buddy, and used with the hose on the left or on the right... It doesn't matter... Which can be important when second count 'cause your buddy's OOA.

By comparison, many other octos - including the SP R190 - have a designated "up" and "down." Sure, it's got a swivel mount on the hose. but the point is that you can't, for example, easily put it in your mouth upside down and leave it that way. You could for the Dacor.

...And in a pinch, when your buddy's in a panic, that might be a nice feature to have.

Unfortunately, those regs that have this ambidextrous design are notoriously "wet" breathers... Since they vent their exhaust bubbles and purge to the side rather than down, they've been known to require a slight head tilt to get them fully cleared. The R190, on the other hand, has it's exit ports UNDER the reg rather than to the side... And thus tends to clear easier and more predictably. Of course, that means that the reg officially has an "up" and a "down."

..The point is that there's advantages and disadvantages to both designs... Although I like the R190 enough to say that I'd personally prefer it to the Dacor model any day. That said, it's larger and more obtrusive than the Dacor octo... Another advantage for the Dacor. However, the R190 has the interesting advantage of being able to take it apart underwater and repair it or clear it if necessary... Something that a Dacor model cannot do.

Have you considered spending a bit more and going with a SP R380? It's smaller and lighter and it's a diaphragm reg rather than a piston reg like you'll find in the 190... Which has it's advantages and disadvantages. I personally like the R380 because it tends to deal well with the massive amount of silt, salt and plankton in the local waters... The piston regs like the R190 and S600 tend to need a bit more attention to keep them working properly. I believe that LP has the R380 listed at about $30 more than the R190.

...But I can see why someone would want an ambidextrous octo... And the Dacor is one of those. But I personally would have to agree with awap... For the maintenance issue alone, I'd recommend sticking with one brand name throughout the reg set. ...And I think you'd find that the quality of the inexpensive R190 is better than the ambidextrous Dacor octo anyway.

 

[jeremyrfoster]

I have been searching the board for quite awhile and have gotten a lot of information regarding the difference between purchasing at your LDS versus purchasing online. One gap in my understanding, however, is the issue of manufacturer's warranties on equipment and getting equipment serviced.

Here are my questions:
- Does all equipment come with a manufacturer's warranty?
- I believe warranties apply only to the original owner... what consitutes the original owner?
- My LDS only services certain brands of equipment. Is an LDS the only place to get stuff serviced (in case I want a brand that they don't service) or do I need to find another LDS?
- What is the required service schedule for various pieces of equipment?

I'll start with that and get more specific if necessary. Thank you in advance for the help.