The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

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Just stopped by a tent sale at a dive shop (not the one I get my tanks filled at)

Bought:

1 150' reel for $30 LP $35
2 dive slates $4 each LP $10
1 dive logbook $15 Unknown
2 tank holders $15 each LP $15
1 scuba tool $30 LP $25

LP prices are next to them now that I have looked them up.

Prices were very close this time. I will continue to buy this stuff from LDS, but will have to think very hard about the major purchases (although mine should be over for a while).
 
The real answer is that it depends. If you go to your LDS and give them an idea of the prices you are getting online, they may try to work something out with you and the prices may be closer than they first seem. I don't think I've ever bought anything at the LDS for the price on the tag.

In terms of computers, I wouldn't really hesitate from buying online. It's the same computers, and especially if it's a wrist mount, there's nothing an LDS can provide you that would necessitate a higher price. If it's an AI, be comfortable with putting it together yourself or make sure the online retailer can do it for you. I wouldn't suggest rolling into your LDS with a bunch of stuff you didn't buy from him and then asking how much it'll be to assemble it. It probably won't be a good situation, for good reason.

As far as regulators go, I'm a fan of the LDS, simply because if you buy from the LDS and you get the warranty, your parts are free for your annual service (either you have coupons - Mares, or a warranty number - Oceanic, etc.) for a couple of years. At my LDS, regulator annuals (first, second, octo) are $55, or $55+parts if out of warranty (or leisurepro 'warranty'). Parts can be pretty expensive ($30-$40 isn't uncommon for first, second, octo). In a couple of years, it can make a difference. Folks will argue that you don't need annual service, but I'm not going to try to save a buck on the thing keeping me alive in a hostile environment. I bench test before most dives and I get annual service religiously.

In addition, there are little things that having a good relationship with your LDS can provide. I've stopped into my LDS a couple of times for odds and ends and come out with what I needed for no charge. I lost the octo keeper for my Mares Axis - No problem, here's another. I lost the inserts to my fins - no problem. I needed a couple of feet of bungie - no problem... And on and on and on...
 
spike627 once bubbled...
I'm Looking to buy online my regs and computers for me and my wife I was looking at scubapro and Wrist computers on LS is $200 less for each reg and 150 less for each computer. Now is it worth buying from your local store or should I just buy online. please send some opnions. thx

I bought my reg (oceanic Delta III with CDX5 first stage), the B/C (transpac II with rec wings) and my computer (suunto vyper) from LP, and all are working great...

I would buy from my LDS everything that needs to be fit (mask, wetsuit, etc).

I'd buy the other items at my LDS also, if they negotiated on prices...However, my LDS seems rather firm on prices...That being said, I've spent over $1000 at the LDS in recent months.

Good Luck!
 
Genesis once bubbled...


See, I went through this too, in a different industry.
.......................................................................
And the end result? The LDS is dying.
And its their own fault.

An excellent analogy! I'm in the computer networking field and can relate to your comparisons with dive shops even though I'm new to diving. I've already spent money in the LDS on training and small stuff but have started to purchase expensive gear online. That's just the way it goes these days. Establish an online presence and get cozy with e-commerse (I'm sure the manufacturers won't mind at all if you push product) or you will go by the wayside. Any small retail shop will not survive without utilizing the latest technology. It's a "gotta have it yesterday" world. I've got a friend that's been running a jewelry shop into the ground for years. It's only a matter of time before he goes under. He's just too cheap (I started in the biz working for mom & pop shops like his) to invest in proven technologies/software whatever to improve his business. Penny wise and dollar foolish..........................................................................
 
AS I posted in another thread here is what IS going to happen.

Despite numerous attempts to suggest otherwise, LDSs simply will NOT be able to compete with online equipment vendors -- for all the reasons above.

Once LDS get out of the channel, the manufacturers will be able to enter directly (ala DELL). They will then disintermediate LP et. al, and offer lower prices DIRECTLY to the consumer than even LP can offer and enjoy better margins than they do today (say take 1/2 of LP's margin for themselves). So no more LP.

Education will come from independents who work with the local sports clubs, pool owners, etc... for the use of their pool during 'off time'. Same with access to locations to have class. They will enjoy better margins than what the LDS pays them -- if they can, they will even raise prices for education -- depends on supply and demand. If they can, then their may be a drop in the number of new divers thus dropping overall demand for equipment. Manufacturers will raise equipment prices in order to keep their profit on thinner volumes. Again, all of this is predicated on a drop in the supply of divers.

Travel will continue to go the online route -- virtual dive communities (like SCUBABOARD) will flourish as a way to get information (sometimes better, sometimes worse) than what is being given at LDSs. Also will play into travel purposes.

Repairs will be performed by the manufacturers or maybe a few centralized independents -- probably subcontracted by mfgs as well.

So, in the end we will probably pay less for the equipment and repairs we get....albeit slightly more inconveniently having to wait for it. The possiblity exists for dive education to go up, but that will be VERY market dependent. The certification agencies will continue to do "ok" subject to drop in certs if pricing goes up.

In the end, manufacturers win.....instructors win. Divers have a mixed win....LDS go out of business. Until all of this happens, there will be a drop in equipment prices, so stock up.

Otter
 
Distribution costs money. Direct sales are more efficient.

Competition will still be present.

I doubt very much that equipment costs will go up, even if diver counts go down. The LDS, however, is definitely in trouble, at least as a "full service" shop - mostly due to their failure to actually BE "full service."

I look forward to these changes.... :)
 
Genesis once bubbled...
Distribution costs money. Direct sales are more efficient.

Only with the advent of the internet has direct sales been more efficient for an industry the size of SCUBA. It was too expensive to have multiple salespeople running around the globe peddling their lines to LDS who were the only customer contact point.


Genesis once bubbled...
I doubt very much that equipment costs will go up, even if diver counts go down.

As far as equipment costs not going up, I would say there is a better than 50/50 chance that they will for the 'higher' ticket items (reg, BCDs, etc..). Why?

1. The power is concentrated in a very few companies who legally or illegally can conspire to raise prices (I believe you are of the opinion that they are doing that now, so why would they stop?)

2. The SCUBA industry is so small it is unlikely to warrant any type of anti-trust investigation and the industry is obviously concerned about any level of government involvment so it is unlikely any insiders will raise the issue to Washington.

3. Divers are conditioned to paying higher prices. In a direct model, manufacturers could raise their prices by 50% and still offer consumers a 25% savings over what they are paying today. All manufacturers have to do is keep prices at a level where the margins are not so good as to attract new entrants into the market. If the diving market continues to shrink (or be flat) then they will have more wiggle room as new business aren't usually all that interested in joining a mature market...they prefer one where the growth rate is big.

What is the basis of 'your doubt'?

Genesis once bubbled...
The LDS, however, is definitely in trouble, at least as a "full service" shop - mostly due to their failure to actually BE "full service."

While your consistent message has always been that the LDS's "service failure" or "value proposition" will be their cause for their demise, I mostly disagree. It is really a matter of economics.

As stated above, the volume of sales are so small for an LDS that it can't support its overhead without charging prices that are higher than the online providers. Even if the shop gave EXCELLENT service, most people aren't willing to pay 50% more for that service.

One could argue that if the LDS were allowed to offer/advertise competitive prices over the Net then they would have greater volume over which to spread their overhead. If they could execute (which is questionable given the resources available to most LDS), they risk canniablizing their retail sales and would need to double or perhaps triple their sales volume in order to generate sufficient margins. While this was possible in the high growth, large market time of the 80s and 90s for PCs, telecom equip etc....the SCUBA industry pie is getting smaller (or at least staying the same), so any volume will come at the expense of another....which will result in fewer LDSs which will allow the manufacturers to take back direct contact with consumers....at least for the big stuff where THEY set the price...

Genesis once bubbled...
I look forward to these changes.... :)

Only time will tell if your eagerness for these changes will be tempered by a good dose of economic reality. As YOU have expressed many times in the past, people operate in their own economic self-interest....so

1. Don't expect LDS to lay down and be slaughtered.
2. Don't expect the manufacturers to give up an opporunity to make more $$
3. Except for the DIYers and those with gills, divers DON'T have long-term purchasing power. This is a seller's market.

Assumptions to the above that may not hold true.

1. Goverment regulator stays out....if C-CARDS become required for equipment purchases, then the DIRECT model gets more complicated. If I were and LDS, this MIGHT be a tactic I would use.

2. Manufactuers are savvy and interested enough to seize this opportunity. There are some smart guys there, but many of them are better engineers than businessmen.

3. Timeframe for all of these changes is probably 5 year+. Except for #1, changes in this industry take time.
 
is less optimistic about the benefits his pro-Internet sales model....
 

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