The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[Genesis]

I have certainly seen other LDS turn a cold shoulder to people who buy online. I think thats short-sighted, but human nature. What would really ticks me off is when I spend time talking with prospects, showing them the strengths and weaknesses of various products, allow them to go in the pool with the gear to try it out and THEN they go buy online.

I even had one come back later and try to get me to help address a problem with reg he bought from LP. I politely told him that I would be happy to, at $50/hr minimum 1 hour and that had he purchased it here, I would have been happy to include that service in the price of the reg.

As a retailer you're entitled to set whatever differential policies you like.

But, if you don't do the same thing in terms of charges to a customer who buys a reg across town (or in Cozumel, for example, after losing one for some reason) as to the person who buys from LP, then you can expect that educated and intelligent consumers will conclude that you "hate" a particular seller or group of sellers, and intend to hurt them.

Since those sellers are pretty clearly acting in the best interest of the consumer (with their lower prices), don't be surprised if those same educated consumers decide that you are out to hurt THEM, conclude that nothing you say or do can possibly be in their best interest, and that EVERYTHING you do suddenly becomes suspect - including your air quality and instruction.

After all, fair is fair, right?

In the end a "fair" mark-up is what the market will pay. Where it becomes less then fair, and treads awfully close to the line of fraud, is when you start trying to support your pricing with outright lies about the lower-cost sellers (such as "you have no warranty" - false - "that's counterfeit gear" - false, etc) in order to scare or pressure people into buying from you.

Again, the proper response to that from consumers is, IMHO, to decide that whatever that seller is offering is equally suspect.

Poof - there goes your business.

 

[scubasean]

Otter once bubbled...
What would really ticks me off is when I spend time talking with prospects, showing them the strengths and weaknesses of various products, allow them to go in the pool with the gear to try it out and THEN they go buy online.

Otter

I agree that a person listening to you for some time and taking in your indepth knowledge of the item, trying on the in the store, etc. should buy it from you.

I even had one come back later and try to get me to help address a problem with reg he bought from LP. I politely told him that I would be happy to, at $50/hr minimum 1 hour and that had he purchased it here, I would have been happy to include that service in the price of the reg.[/B]

As for the other issue of the reg service, I would suggest that your decision as to how/when to charge for service should be more along the lines of whether you carry the reg, whether the reg they bought was in warranty, and whether you wish to gain their loyalty for a possible later purchase.

I wasn't sure if you meant that a guy who bought online after you had educated him for an hour then brought his reg back to you for help, or whether the guy with the reg hadn't come to you before, but bought online.

If a person who bought online (without previously taking your time) comes in, I would suggest that you might have an opportunity to gain them as a customer....

Might work, might not....Oh well. If you are the business owner, you are entitled to run it how you see fit.

--Sean

 

[gfisher4792]

I'm not sure how useful this info will be, but my scubapro LDS sells his stuff exactly how it's priced in the scubapro 2003 catalog. And, of course, he'll give the max %10 discount. Not sure if this means that scubapro sets the market prices for their equipment, and not allowing the LDSs to mark it up anymore tha listed?

 

[Otter]

A couple of comments...

Since those sellers are pretty clearly acting in the best interest of the consumer (with their lower prices), don't be surprised if those same educated consumers decide that you are out to hurt THEM, conclude that nothing you say or do can possibly be in their best interest, and that EVERYTHING you do suddenly becomes suspect - including your air quality and instruction.

First, I don't believe the LP is acting in the best interest of the consumer, they are acting in LP's best interest. They price it as high as they can and still get the sale. Consumers are acting in the consumer's best interest by paying as little as possible. I am not out to hurt a customer, I am acting in my best interest.

Where we have a win-win situation is where we can find a agreement where each party is being treated fairly. If I am providing a service (sharing knowledge and experienced), immediate product availability, and the ability to try the gear on, I would like to be fairly treated (and compensated).

Where it becomes less then fair, and treads awfully close to the line of fraud, is when you start trying to support your pricing with outright lies about the lower-cost sellers (such as "you have no warranty" - false - "that's counterfeit gear" - false, etc) in order to scare or pressure people into buying from you.

I am not sure where you came to the conclusion that I was spreading false information. Nothing in my post suggested that, I wonder about your motivation for making said claim. I might suggest that it is fraudulent (or at least deceitful) for a person with no intention of buying anything to represent himself as a customer and afford himself of the various 'free' services I offer.

Thankfully those customers are few and far between and most customer appreciate the added benefits the receive by dealing with an LDS and are willing to pay more (within limits of course) for those benefits.

Otter

 

[Genesis]

I am not sure where you came to the conclusion that I was spreading false information. Nothing in my post suggested that, I wonder about your motivation for making said claim. I might suggest that it is fraudulent (or at least deceitful) for a person with no intention of buying anything to represent himself as a customer and afford himself of the various 'free' services I offer.

You put the lie to your own words by the fact that they DO buy - just not from you!

They have every intention of buying. You have every opportunity to make the sale, in fact, you get the first shot, which is the best shot!

Why do you lose those sales? You fail to offer the value proposition that convinces the customer that your package, all up, is the best deal.

There is nothing "dishonest" about going into a store to determine the product you want and determining what the store offers as that total package, composed of price, services, and support.

There is also nothing "dishonest" about a customer doing that and coming to the conclusion that you are not offering the "best combination" to suit their needs.

You claim that these customers have no intention of buying. That's a lie - and the proof is as simple as the fact that you later observe that they DID buy!

If you fail to convince the customer that the best deal is to be had in your store, the only point of failure you can complain about is your own, for you and you alone set the package deal that you offer comprised of price, service and support.

LP is not to "blame" for your failure to sell the product.

You are.

You have priced yourself out of the market, when all is said and done. The "total package' you offer is inferior, as determined by the customer, and that's the end of it.

Where the problem comes in is when you get upset with the customer for what is, 100%, your failure!

That is where the line is crossed.

 

[Otter]

ScubaSean said

I wasn't sure if you meant that a guy who bought online after you had educated him for an hour then brought his reg back to you for help, or whether the guy with the reg hadn't come to you before, but bought online.

It was one of the guys who I spent all the time with and let him go into the pool. It wasn't an annual service, as I recall, he basically needed/wanted hand holding on HOW to install the computer into the console -- which of course we would have done at no additional cost had he bought it from us.

As for annual service, I don't care where the reg was purchased. If I can service it I will. If its one of the brands I carry, I assume you bought it from us. If not, I agree, its usually a great opportunity to get a new customer.

I have found that being honest with people, giving them all of the pluses and minuses of a situation, and letting make the decision is the best course of action. I just don't like being treated dishonestly, which was I attempted, but perhaps failed, to communicate in my first post.

Otter

 

[double125's]

For those of you who by lds only maybe you should view it this way: You are spending the extra cash to purchase a warrenty. Most people do it for their cars so why not due it for your scuba gear.

 

[Genesis]

....you just have to send it to them for the warranty repairs.

They offer the identical terms as any so-called "disclaimed" warranty by the manufacturers (which, in some cases, the manufacturer won't actually get away with if you press the issue)

So what you appear to be buying for DOUBLE the amount of money spent at LP is the ability to have warranty work done without having to send something off.

That's a hell of a price for that convenience. Perhaps for some its worth it. For me its not.

Its when the LDSs misrepresent what you're buying (e.g. the "you have no warranty" claim) that they are engaging in dishonest dealing at best.

 

[diverbrian]

I hate to point this out but our LDS will replace an item immediately when you take it in if you have a dive planned in order to keep you diving. Ask LP to let you have a loaner computer while yours is being shipped back. I doubt that you will find the answer to your liking.

In short, some people (to give Genesis a great deal of credit he pointed this out) like to use the personalized service that the dive shop has to offer. I find the knowledge of fits and what I REALLY need for a given situation invaluable. You can't beat two guys with over thirty years of diving experience each, along with several quality instructors for "brain-picking." So, yes, I am willing to pay a premimum for that. I have also had fin buckles break (replaced on the spot free of charge), my Mosquito fail (replaced by Suunto, on the spot replacement offered by shop, I took the newer model instead.), and a couple of other minor equipment problems over my 70+ dives. You will not find too many online retailers that will give you personalized service.

There are several reasons that LP can undercut an LDS and I am not totally against anything in diving (including LP). As a DiveCon would I buy gear from them? Not on your life! The owner of the dive shop would have my head on a platter for not using gear that the store sells to set an example for students and new divers (rightfully so, as a DM or AI, I represent the store). He would know by the maintenance records that I didn't buy that piece of gear there, too. As a recreational diver, it would depend what I needed. Anything that needs to be fit, I would get from the LDS. D.C./ gauges/ knives/ accessories... A qualified maybe

 

[double125's]

Dont get me wrong I am a lp guy myself, however if something breaks I am not going to rely on their so called warrenty. From what I hear it sucks but then again I bought knowing there was no manufacturer warrenty. You can save up front then pay over the remainder of the life of your equipment or you can pay the lds price and hopefully get good quality service from them. One thing I noticed is that if the lds knows you bought online they will raise the price of their service, therfore let them think you bought it while you lived somewhere else or while you were on vacation. Where you buy your equipment is personal preference however if online service is not as good as your lds then dont comlain.