The great big, all-inclusive Leisure Pro note

[truva]

Does anyone else see the contradiction and the humor in the argument against buying regulators from Leisure-Pro? I mean the “manufacturers” and LDS’s say they are so worried about getting sued if they sell parts to end-users yet they will try to void a warranty if you buy regulators from LP. Like if there is a defect in something that can be traced back to a manufacturer they’re going to be hosed anyway. The idea that they may try to tell a jury that they aren’t responsible for it is laughable.

Truva

 

[MikeFerrara]

Except for that if you get a reg from LP and it kills you the manufacturer will say that it wasn't assembled and tested prior to sale by an authorized technician as they require for your safety.

My guess is that they will try to show in court that they excersized due care by training technicians and dealers. They will argue that they have policies that try to ensure that your reg is tested by them and that you are instructed on it's proper use by those trained (authorized) people. They would claim that the warranty is voided because those procedures weren't followed. They will claim that LP violated a duty of care by not being trained and authorized to test the reg and instruct you on it's use as is industry standard at this time. They will also claim that you knew better.

Now the manufacturers training may not be worth a hill of beans and their dealers may not follow their procedures but once the manufacturers instruction aren't followed, the responsibility for the results may be with those who chose no to follow them.

9 out of ten times you can take a reg out of a box. slap it together and dive it. Once in a while they need adjustment or there's a problem. Read through the posts here on the board. Every now and then some one gets a defective product from LP. Maybe a real dealer would have caught it and maybe not but they'll say they would have.

I sure wouldn't pay retail for a reg bu then again I can fix em, test em and whatever. I don't need any ones help.

Also look here on the board and see how many folks order a reg and then post here asking if they can put together theselves and asking how to do it. Mybe these people shouldn't buy mail order.

I read such a post today. The very first post answering their question gave incomplete instruction. In a worst case situation this person could have a problem. Hopefully they are a good enough diver that even if the reg fails they aren't in danger but who knows. I do know that they weren't told how to test the reg correctly.

Specifically the diver was instructed to test the reg under pos pressure but not negative. The reg would pass the test even if it was missing an exhaust diaphragm. Thinking they have a perfectly functioning reg they could just end up sucking water. Is that as funny as your point?

This stuff isn't rocket science and if you know what you're doing you can get regs anywhere including garage sales. Otherwise you might want to get some one to help you. Depending on who you have available you might have to pay them.

The further YOU deviate from the manufacturers recommendations the less likely it is that they will be held responsible for anything.

It might be BS but their lawyers know what they're doing. Some even have warnings on their web sites about buying from LP (or at least they did). If you get hurt they'll just tell the jury that they told you not to do that. The fact that you think you'll have such an easy time holding them responsible is laughable. Just try it. I trust you've heard the saying buyer beware?

BTW, I find it absolutely gut splitting funny that people will use a reg from a company that treats them that way.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Parts...

I have been a dealer for several brands. The last time I looked there wasn't anything in any of my dealer agreements preventing me from selling parts.

The manufacturer won't sell them to you but they won't sell anything directly to you in most cases.

Geverally about the time a diver gets to the point that they know what to do with the parts they have places to get them. It's funny how that works.

 

[DeepScuba]

So Mike, how do you assemble a brand new reg out of the box incorrectly?

How does "Some assembly required" void any warranty?

Would a reasonable jury member conclude that anyone without the proper "factory" training not be able to screw in a hose? and check an IP???

Lemme guess, there's more rocket science to it than that? Right?

hehehheh

Sure there is.....and then the cat was out of the bag how simple it all is.

maybe this, maybe that, maybe I'll die tonight in my sleep. Maybe I won't worry about it.

Maybe I'll just dive.

Maybe it came from the factory like TWO of my S/Pro Mk20's did..with washers and shims NOT where they were supposed to be. Maybe I dove with them 20 times before I found out ONLY because I decided to strip them for the hell of it.

Maybe they worked flawlessly just the same.

Maybe regs are better equiped to handle abuse more than we think they are..............

Maybe it's a "Scuba" thing.

Just maybe I'll know some day.

I'm gonng go and check my IP creep again.....

 

[LUBOLD8431]

Yeah, Im sure LP is in the back room with wrenches, and messing with every reg just to spite us...

However, I should say that I have caught a few regs with some issues from LP...

 

[truva]

“The fact that you think you'll have such an easy time holding them responsible is laughable.”

Do you own a Dive Shop by chance? <jk>

I was just trying to point out the contradictory issue here; maybe I didn’t do a very good job explaining it. I’ll try again; it’s kind of like having your cake and eating it to. Like Ford with the Pinto, the fact that someone had to hit you from behind didn’t really matter because the design of the car was such that it would explode…

But we don’t have to worry about this stuff the designs out there are very safe and very simple. Other than maybe having a cut O-ring out of the box, I wouldn’t think there is a lot that can get through the QA control.

Truva

 

[Northeastwrecks]

So Mike, how do you assemble a brand new reg out of the box incorrectly?

Well, there was the idiot from the summer who bought his reg from LP (or some other online shop) and stripped his high pressure port on the first stage. It turned out that there was no o-ring on the hose. He didn't notice, so he tried to solve the gas leak by tightening the hose with a large wrench and the reg in a vise.

I don't blame LP. The o-ring was in the bottom of the box. Instead, I chalk it up to Darwin at work.

Incidentally, it never ceases to amaze me that this debate continues. My position is simple. If you want to buy from LP, have a ball. Personally, I like the support I get from my LDS, including discounts, 24/7 access and free fills. IMHO, this only becomes an issue when the LP buyer wants us to do something to the gear for free, or expects the same perks as good customers.

 

[Genesis]

I've seen regs mistuned out of the box - but that problem is the manfacturers and THEIR crappy quality control, not LPs - and by the way, the last one I saw this way came from a dive shop that didn't do anything other than screw in the hoses. So much for "professional levels of service."

Those who effectively are a LDS are, you will find, all the whiners here about LP and the other "discounters." Those who claim not to be but who have some "quid pro quo" with a LDS really are part of the LDS - just like I was when I worked for someone or otherwise performed some service for them and had the keys to the building.

Of course they've got "issues" with people buying from LP - their gravy train (either directly or indirectly) is being threatened by LPs success.

I bet they just love the new banner ads here....

 

[truva]

I wanted to point out the humor in this, really I do find it very funny but you bring out another point:
===================
<Specifically the diver was instructed to test the reg under pos pressure but not negative. The reg would pass the test even if it was missing an exhaust diaphragm. Thinking they have a perfectly functioning reg they could just end up sucking water. Is that as funny as your point?>
==============================
If someone is so stupid as to dive a regulator without finding this before hand, then I would be the first the laugh, unless of course the stupid diver died from it. I’d be pissed at the instructor that certified the diver in the first place, especially if I was on vacation and it cut short my time. Now that instructor probably would have had a dive shop and want to sell equipment to the guy. He’d probably certify a ham sandwich if it had a few dollars to spend, what the hell he has a fat signed release anyway.

Truva

 

[medical1]

Of course they've got "issues" with people buying from LP - their gravy train (either directly or indirectly) is being threatened by LPs success.

I bet they just love the new banner ads here....

Still laughing about the banner ads

Genesis<--How did I know you would find this thread? Funny nobody mentions Scubatoys - the other banner. Genesis - when are you going to teach a class on equip tairdown - after me signing a waiver of course releasing you from any Darwin acts that I may bring on my self.