The Frog Kick...........can't.......help?

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DiverDurf

Contributor
Messages
71
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1
Location
Saint Augustine, FL
# of dives
25 - 49
Granted I only have 9 logged dives so far, but I cannot for the life of me seem to get the frog kick style of swimming around under control. I'm still using rental BCD's and a standard weight belt, and my feet always seem to want to go downward when I'm just hanging out above the bottom (as in feet heavy). I got a new BCD for Christmas that I'll be using this coming weekend and it has the weight integrate pockets with trim pockets on the back. Will this make it easier for me to use the frog kick and balance out my horizontal position? I really don't want to inadvertenly kick the top of a reef because I can't get my bouyancy/trim under control.
 
Way back a long time ago when I was skinny and had hair, I was a competitive swimmer. Breaststroke was by far my worst stroke. To this minute, when I try the frog kick, I go......nowhere.

I'd seen many people do the frog kick while diving but every time I tried it, my fins either curled up under my feet or got twisted and turned and I went.....nowhere.

Then I had an epiphany. I tried keeping my legs fairly straight, with the fin blades horizontal, and spreading my legs from the hips. When they are spread out, I turn my feet so the fin blades are vertical (purpendicular to the motion) and then bring my legs together. Bingo!! I started moving. This is the technique I use when I don't want to stir up the silt on the bottom.

I have the same problem with negatively-buoyant legs that you have. Trial and error with weight placement vis-a-vis my center of buoyancy has helped some, but has not cured that problem. Good luck!
 
Practice in a pool... no gear other than your mask, fins and snorkel... stay on the surface and do the breast stroke.

The frog kick is almost the same kick. When you have the breast stroke down... stop using your hands and place your face in the water (remember your snorkel...lol)

Once you have done that, dip under water for just a couple of kicks. Soon, you will find this to be an easy kick and the one you do most.
 
Oh, forgot. It is much easier to do this kick if you are not wearing split fins...

If you have a problem with negative boyancy toward your legs, move your tank up on your back.
 
Granted I only have 9 logged dives so far, but I cannot for the life of me seem to get the frog kick style of swimming around under control. I'm still using rental BCD's and a standard weight belt, and my feet always seem to want to go downward when I'm just hanging out above the bottom (as in feet heavy). I got a new BCD for Christmas that I'll be using this coming weekend and it has the weight integrate pockets with trim pockets on the back. Will this make it easier for me to use the frog kick and balance out my horizontal position? I really don't want to inadvertenly kick the top of a reef because I can't get my bouyancy/trim under control.

Before you can do any kind of kick efficiently, you need to get your buoyancy and trim straightened out.

If you're recently certified, you should go back to your instructor and ask why this wasn't addressed in class. He probably won't like that, and won't do anything about it, but it's nice to let him know that you noticed that his training was lacking. :D

All is not lost, in fact, what you're looking for is not very difficult to achieve and is critical to everything else you do in diving. However the physics hasn't changed and instead of rehashing it here, I'll point you to a very good thread on this exact subject, written by some very knowledgeable authors:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba.../4911-getting-perfect-buoyancy.html#post49777

Terry
 
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DiverDurf, ENORMOUS kudos to you for thinking about these things. You're way ahead of me; at 9 dives, I was still trying to SURVIVE underwater.

The first thing to do is to get properly weighted. If you are using rental gear, which changes each time you go out, this is very difficult to do. Once you have your own equipment, you will be able to make progress on this much faster. You want enough weight to be able to stay down at the end of the dive, with a nearly empty tank, but not so much that you are too heavy and have too much air in your BC to compensate. How to do a proper weight check should have been covered in your OW class, but it isn't difficult, and you can do it at the beginning of your dive, if you know the tank you are using. (If it's an Al80, you want just enough weight to be neutral at the surface, and then add five pounds.)

Once you have the weight right, then you have to distribute it for proper balance. Most new divers put all their weight in integrated pouches, or on weight belts. If you are carrying very much weight, this is likely to make you balance feet down, and the only way you can fix that is to swim. What you are looking for is a static balance (in other words, a balance created from the fixed parts of your weight and buoyancy) that allows you to sit still in the water in a horizontal position. This is complicated by the fact that your body posture influences your balance to a signfiicant degree. If you are diving with your head down, that will tend to drive the front of you down; if you are diving with your hips flexed, so that your knees are beneath you, that will tend to tilt you feet down. The ideal posture is a flat body from shoulders to knees. Your hands can be clasped underneath you, or out in front of you; it doesn't matter that much, so long as the position is consistent.

Once you have your posture solid and your weight balanced in a horizontal position, then you can begin to work on the frog kick. I would HIGHLY suggest you find someone local to you who knows the kick, and can pattern you through it on a park bench or something as a first step. Florida is full of cave divers, and cave divers ALL know the frog kick, so you shouldn't have too much trouble finding someone to help with this. (I say this because, when I took GUE Fundamentals -- which is where I learned my frog kick -- I first tried to do it completely backwards, bringing the TOPS of the feet together. It took my instructor getting underwater with me and patterning my fins through the kick THERE for me to get it. You can ingrain the wrong kick very thoroughly and very quickly, if you are doing it wrong and no one is there to tell you about it.)

Good luck with this, and again, my compliments and my thanks for being concerned enough about the environment through which you pass, to want to learn what you can to help preserve it.
 
Here's a good video, I hope it helps.

 
O-ha... I will certainly second that which TSandM states above here, with emphasis on that you are simply way ahead of yourself, yet! Second, I dare say to think very much about frog kicks without considering the rest of what makes up your trim is rather worthless. Those of us who practice frog kicking are usually within the "Hogarthian" squad. Which means we are not only more streamlined in our gear set up than you'll ever be in any ordinary BCD, which is a "must" for getting the most out of power saving frog kicks. But we are also swimming fully horisontal 1) to reduce drag even further, 2) because it makes our bouyancy control what it is...

My thoughts are that you will likely not gain much, if anything, from struggling with frog kicking at the level your are now. Get many mores dives, and more important, ENJOY THEM!!! Then later on you can start evaluating your gear set up and maybe do some training with experienced frog kickers out there.
 
Thank guys/gals for the great info! The video shows exactly what I cannot master for now. Every time I try to bend my legs and get into that perfect horizontal position, my legs just want to pull me back down into a somewhat vertical position (negatively bouyant legs as previously stated). I've done only spring diving so far and will again this coming weekend, and this particular spring we're heading to gets VERY silty if someone hits the bottom. I've found that I have a pretty darn good bouyancy for a new diver, but my trim absolutely stinks in getting horizontal when NOT moving (moving is no problem). For instance, at the Blue Grotto in Williston, FL I can stay perfectly in one spot below that diver's bell without breaking the surface inside of it, and I can hover (vertically) with legs folded beneath me in the indian style with no problem. But the horizontal trim while motionless is out the door, lol! I'm trying really hard to be cogniscent to the damage we can do to the environment, and of course not silting up a spring and ruining the dive for others just getting wet (already seen that done by others).

(Thanks for the compliment TSandM) :)
 

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