The endless saga continues...

[NudeDiver]

I think the comment about relying on consumers who don't know any better is dead on.

I recently saw a women drop almost $900 on two sets of masks, fins, fin boots, snorkels and gear bags for two kids at a local LDS.

I'll bet that same $900 that she didn't even bother looking at the prices at the other two shops in town, let alone on-line.

 

[tridacna]

In the current example, even at the internet sites there was almost an $800 difference in price. I wonder if the LDS and ST prices were really apples to apples.

You are correct. It was not apples to apples. ST included stuff that the LDS did not! Pricing from ST for everything: $1530. They threw in other stuff too. And they responded within 4 hours. My LDS came in at $2340. Same config. If he had been around $1800, I would have given him a chance. Took him 3 days to work put the price.

 

[mike_s]

A new LDS opened near me. Owner is the nicest guy. Runs a very friendly operation.

wow....

seeing how dive shops are failing, I'm surprised to see a new one open in this struggling economy and with the economic downturn of the dive industry.


If he's not going to be price competitive, I wonder how long he'll stay in business.

I mean are there really that many "newly minted divers going the caribbean" that are just going to come in there and drop a ton of cash?

how long do you think he'll last?


(Note: I don't wish for this guy to fail, but just pointing out that he's got a really tough road ahead of him ..... )

 

[Drewski]

Ya Know...

Having managed a dive shop for a few years, here's the deal. It's all about volume and regional market. If you have an exclusive brand in a region (say ScubaPro), you're the only shop that can sell it. BUT , you must meet a certain sales volume and maintain it. If you can keep that volume, you get bottom line pricing (the biggest volume discount) even on smaller quantity orders provided you meet the year end total. As a consumer, the MSRP is generally a 100% markup of the dealer cost. So, if a regulator has a MSRP of $500, it's dealer cost was about $250 (higher or lower depending on purchase volume).

Routinely, to accept a dealership, you had to sign all kinds of sales requirement agreements. The more popular and established the product, the more requirements. Google "Coke," "Pepsi," "7-11" and "sales agreement" if you want some interesting reading sometime.

AND, don't ever think the dive equipment manufactures don't encourage the "grey market." Every product that goes out the door has a serial number. They know who they sold it to, regardless of where it ends up. If they wanted to stop it, they could. Grey market is the way they boost sales to make quarterly requirements or dump older stuff. It is what it is.

 

[Sas]

I think the comment about relying on consumers who don't know any better is dead on.

I recently saw a women drop almost $900 on two sets of masks, fins, fin boots, snorkels and gear bags for two kids at a local LDS.

I'll bet that same $900 that she didn't even bother looking at the prices at the other two shops in town, let alone on-line.

Yes I am sure that is how many dive stores have managed to stay afloat. I see new divers in particular buying new gear at huge costs as they are relying solely on dive shops for advice. I did the same when I started diving and it was painful to add up how much I'd wasted :blush: I even did a bit of online research but got convinced that not having a warranty was really bad (warranties are handy and I prefer to have them but not if it means I pay double for a bit of gear) and that the taxes would be huge if I brought stuff bought online overseas into the country. Anyway, live and learn and I understand the primary responsibility falls on the buyer to make sure they do their research properly.

I guess lots of new divers drop out after they have bought heaps of gear so the dive shops probably feel they need to get in quickly and sell things before the new diver drops out... I doubt this is sustainable in the long run, especially in times like this when the economy has gone to crap so dive stores that have pissed off long term regular customers through expensive prices won't have much to fall back on. Shops that have done a lot to remain competitive already are more likely to have retained regular divers who can continue to provide business during times where there are not going to be many new divers signing up to courses and then dropping a wad of cash on a new expensive gear package.

 

[RonFrank]

In my OW class, time was spent by the instructor discussing the evil's of purchasing *life support gear online*. That was five years ago, but I think little has changed.

I would have liked him to use that time to discuss... THE CLASS Material!

Our LDS has no interest in competing with the Net. They are open and up front about their horrible prices if questioned. Their pricing on basic gear included a 10% markup over MSRP as they offer the new student a 15% discount!

Basically you can pay $40ish at LP for a good mask, or you can pay $80ish there! I'm betting that 75%+ of their students buy basic equipment from them, and it's likely higher. They dump $350~$500 on gear that runs maybe $200~350 online.

IMO, more power to them! If that is the way they choose to do business, I'm not here to fault them. I'm just happy they are keeping their doors open!

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

THen there's the issue of air fills. If all the LDS's go out where do we get fills?
It's really a no win deal for anyone. The LDS's rape you to stay in business so that we have a place to get air fills. So you shop online to save money but then can't get fills.
So what are we supposed to do besides spend 5 to 7K for our own compressor?

 

[Sas]

THen there's the issue of air fills. If all the LDS's go out where do we get fills?
It's really a no win deal for anyone. The LDS's rape you to stay in business so that we have a place to get air fills. So you shop online to save money but then can't get fills.
So what are we supposed to do besides spend 5 to 7K for our own compressor?

This has been said so many times by people but I keep seeing statements like the one above - to repeat if there is demand for airfills someone will provide the service! That is how markets work!

You are also neglecting the fact that *many* independent clubs own a compressor which is available to club members for free or at cost.

 

[mongodives]

What about fills?
Gimme a break, if all the LDS's go under the places that do Hydro's will probably add air fills, or new businesses will come in that will provide fills, visuals and hydro's.
You never know local Fire department's might even see providing fills as a community service or a source of revenue to help pay for the upkeep of their compressors.(not likely but you never know)

 

[Brandon]

The "where will you get fills and training" argument is a total myth.

We're 800 miles from the nearest dive shop and doing just fine.

-B