The Down Current Killer

[Tigerman]

I was present a few years back when divers got caught in a down current. It was at Ras Mohammed in Egypt, and the dive leader (a very experienced instructor) had given a really thorough briefing warning of the down current and not to exceed 20mtr at that point. Despite that two Italian divers chose to ignore her, and she had to leave the group and head down to them. When she reached them they were at 55mtr, still descending, quite unaware of their position, and getting pretty low on air. She dragged them back up (they fought against her) and took them straight to the boat. They didn't dive again that trip as the dive shop impounded their cards. This was an extremely brave act on the part of the instructor, who was on nitrox 32% (or it may have been 36%). They never accepted that they were responsible and would have died except for her.

Shark and Yolanda across the saddle?
Also the guide was almost certainly on 32% as thats the "standard gas" down there for anyone not diving good old air and most if not all guides there dive exclusively nitrox for rec dives..

 

[Hashsaz]

smokin3000gt - Along my dive, Max depth at 18+m as my buddy who is OW. , those behind us were deeper than us. But when the current acting too strong (which was not commonly happened as what the local DM said), we were all about the same depth.


ScubaSteve - During the dive, I was buddy with my friend and look after him who is new in diving. Both of us are new to the dive site. That's why we were just sticking in front row after another diver who with the local DM. As I knew, the victim was not with any partner as the other 2 behind me were partners. We actually pointed out there's a lost member during the safety stop, but the DM said it's ok, ascend and wait. At the surface, we were told he was experienced at the dive site shouldn't be a problem, and everyone was just waiting. Before the dive, supposedly he was asked to buddy with the one who stick with the local DM. But when underwater, his partner changed to buddy with the local DM, and he was alone. *Not sure if he asked his buddy to do so. And, we were all leisure divers, buddy system was arranged by the local DM and he himself to choose who to be partnered with.


dumpsterDiver - you're right, and the current on the day was just abnormal else I believe it is one of the best spot in that area. Once we found his lost, the local DM asked all of us to surface first and on the boat, he and the boatman were actually keep looking for bubbles and some of us were helping too but see no sign of bubbles.


flots am - I guess he would safe if he never dive alone as he was confident with his experience and his logs at the repeated dive site. Else, as you said, either he alone or both he and his buddy will lost with the way they dive.

JamesK - No problem. I guess the wrong part, either my language or as what everyone said about the buddy system or his personalities.


DannyDon - The victim was not the Local DM, but DM worked in some island, cant recall the place name. He was return guest to the dive center.


Dr. Lecture - It's true that they are not always beneficial when the skills when both are in big gap. Anything happen on the experienced one, anytime will cause panic to the less experienced diver. And for the case I met, I believe it's either both survive or both killed if there's buddy with him.

peterbj7 - Me too actually unless I am diving with some closed friend, that's what makes me safe in the incident, maybe? I am photographer but i was not taking my camera down that trip, strange.

SangP - I believe he is.

 

[JamesK]

The wrong part being what others have said. I just did not want to repeat everyone else.

 

[Rhone Man]

I think you all need to seriously consider learning to be a buddy. "I don't care" should never be part of the buddy arrangement.

Edit.....I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say this was a language barrier....lost in translation. BUT, someone, his buddy and the DM/Captain should have been looking for him as soon as they realized he was missing. In fact, the Buddy should not have been able to separate and surface without knowing where the other diver was going (i.e. depth, direction etc.).[/QUOTE]

I think you are being a bit harsh. Allowing for mistranslations: you are suggesting the OP should have recklessly endangered his own life in those conditions to try and pull off an improbable rescue of a much more experienced diver?

I have been caught in a ferocious downcurrent; it is damn scary. It is hard to know exactly what one would do in the OP's situation when it is all hypothetical, but I think it is likely that if any dive buddy of mine got driven down like that (other than perhaps my son), I would have left. I am sorry, but better one body than two; I have a family to look out for.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I think you are being a bit harsh. Allowing for mistranslations: you are suggesting the OP should have recklessly endangered his own life in those conditions to try and pull off an improbable rescue of a much more experienced diver?

I have been caught in a ferocious downcurrent; it is damn scary. It is hard to know exactly what one would do in the OP's situation when it is all hypothetical, but I think it is likely that if any dive buddy of mine got driven down like that (other than perhaps my son), I would have left. I am sorry, but better one body than two; I have a family to look out for.

I did not define the search methodology and for good reason. I did not say that somebody should have gone to 100 meters to try to save the missing DM (or perhaps you can point to where I said that). My point was that nobody cared that a diver was unaccounted for because they "assumed he could handle it". That means that when the rest of them got caught in the down current and moved away from the wall to get out of it, nobody checked to see if anybody was still in trouble. Obviously the conditions were benign enough once they got away from the wall to carry out, calmly, a safety stop yet nobody thought to check on people and see that one person was actually missing. All they really had to do was a simple headcount, realize a body was missing, realize a very dangerous phenomena had just occurred and start looking around. Would they have seen him? Maybe not. They did nothing. When they surfaced they could have been searching the surface in all directions.......would they have seen him? Maybe not. They did nothing.


---------- Post Merged at 07:49 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:43 AM ----------

ScubaSteve - During the dive, I was buddy with my friend and look after him who is new in diving. Both of us are new to the dive site. That's why we were just sticking in front row after another diver who with the local DM. As I knew, the victim was not with any partner as the other 2 behind me were partners. We actually pointed out there's a lost member during the safety stop, but the DM said it's ok, ascend and wait. At the surface, we were told he was experienced at the dive site shouldn't be a problem, and everyone was just waiting. Before the dive, supposedly he was asked to buddy with the one who stick with the local DM. But when underwater, his partner changed to buddy with the local DM, and he was alone. *Not sure if he asked his buddy to do so. And, we were all leisure divers, buddy system was arranged by the local DM and he himself to choose who to be partnered with.

Don't get me wrong.....I am saying a breakdown occurred, but am not saying it was necessarily involving you personally. I firmly believe that given everything you have stated, the dive op should have at the very least started a surface search (different people at different points on the boat scanning the surface for the dive). A down current can be a deadly phenomena but it can also be easy enough to walk away from as you are exhibiting yourself. Had nothing at all out of the ordinary happened on the dive, then perhaps the choice to just blindly accept that he was nowhere to be found would have been an acceptable decision. But given your description of what happened, I feel that there was definitely a breakdown.

 

[Hashsaz]

Hope the story I shared never cause any argument among us Never think that gain so many attention or different opinion from many people. Just wanted to ask everyone to be careful when diving.

Let's assuming I'm not the witness for the incident, I felt that It's not easy regardless how many buddies are there. It's true that there's lack of responsibilities for never take immediate action but I understand his effort for signing "no problem, ascend first", at least he calmed down the rest. Probably worse case occur when everyone panic underwater.

Refer back to the topic..imagine the incident is caused by the down current which was strong enough to drag an experienced diver into 100meters within seconds (maybe). With the phenomena, logically don't think that's easy to save him with any solutions, neither me or you. Don think it's helpful too even there's 1 or more buddy with him.And, I don't believe the victim never put any effort at all to get himself out from the current while he was around 18-21m. This kind of situation, no matter the dive OP go for searching or not, there's no result too. Plus, the bottom time took about 56 mins to be exact including safety stop, don think there's more air for any divers when you're more than 40m below the surface after a 50+min dive time. We can't really blame the local op unless the victim was found dead couple km away with 20+m max depth showed by his dive comp, then it could be OOA.

This situation made me think of tsunami kills hundred or thousand of people incl. experience swimmers or surfers.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I did not define the search methodology and for good reason. I did not say that somebody should have gone to 100 meters to try to save the missing DM (or perhaps you can point to where I said that). My point was that nobody cared that a diver was unaccounted for because they "assumed he could handle it". That means that when the rest of them got caught in the down current and moved away from the wall to get out of it, nobody checked to see if anybody was still in trouble. Obviously the conditions were benign enough once they got away from the wall to carry out, calmly, a safety stop yet nobody thought to check on people and see that one person was actually missing. All they really had to do was a simple headcount, realize a body was missing, realize a very dangerous phenomena had just occurred and start looking around. Would they have seen him? Maybe not. They did nothing. When they surfaced they could have been searching the surface in all directions.......would they have seen him? Maybe not. They did nothing.


---------- Post Merged at 07:49 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:43 AM ----------




Don't get me wrong.....I am saying a breakdown occurred, but am not saying it was necessarily involving you personally. I firmly believe that given everything you have stated, the dive op should have at the very least started a surface search (different people at different points on the boat scanning the surface for the dive). A down current can be a deadly phenomena but it can also be easy enough to walk away from as you are exhibiting yourself. Had nothing at all out of the ordinary happened on the dive, then perhaps the choice to just blindly accept that he was nowhere to be found would have been an acceptable decision. But given your description of what happened, I feel that there was definitely a breakdown.

For some reason, I get the impression that you may not have a lot of diving experience in low visibility (10 ft vis) and high current environments in very deep water. Once a diver is separated by a super strong current, what exactly do you want them to do underwater? OK they can look over eachothers shoulders during a safety stop, but to suggest that they should have "looked" for the guy is kinda ridiculous. They got separated in very bad conditions, you assume the guy survived just like you did and when you reach the surface and don't find him then you look on the surface for bubbles or a diver. I am at a total loss as to what you think should or could be done in such a situation.

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

If your going to dive in any kind of current you better not be relying on a buddy. LEARN SELF RESCUE.
ZDD

 

[bilsant]

Forgive me if I missed something.

Has anyone heard about this fatality from a source other than the OP?

Is it possible there's another explanation?

Just askin'

 

[ronski101]

Although we dive in groups and or with buddies, diving is still an individual sport where the primary responsibility for each individual diver lies within him or herself. That does not mean you do not use any immediate means at your disposal to help yourself especially in an emergency be it an anchor line, lift bag, sausage, knife, redundant air, octopus, reef hook, DM, and yes even your buddy. Having said that, if the first person you look for is your buddy to save your sorry A__ when something unexpected happens then you are asking for trouble. Your buddy should be the last person to ask for help if you have properly thought out the numerous problems that can occur and have a plan for them ready. You could drown 3 ft away from your buddy if he was not looking at you if your 2nd stage malfunctioned and you could not find your octopus and did not know where his was.