The cost of Padi

[Wobbegong_Thai]

๋Just wanna add my two satang... (well.. it's kinda smaller monetary denomination of Baht)

I'm a Thai instructor, teaching for about 2.5 years. but been diving for 7-8 years.
For the situation in Thailand, the previous poster was right..
If an instructor order the material/PIC from PADI directly, in large amount, the Tax imposed on them are of rediculous scale.
(due to some classification of import goods it fell on to)

PADI do have some materials available in Thai, mainly OW and AID. and I think that's why there's the pharase "available in the language the students understands"
This is not only problematic in Thailand, I'd say it also in Malaysia, Indonesia and Philipines as well.
(only to a lesser degree, most ppl in those countries can use english more effectively than Thai nationals)

There are a few main importor of PADI materials in Thailand, and sometimes the price they set weren't in liu with what PADI expect.

(I heard a rumor from certain friends that PADI is investigating on this over-priced issue)

Then, about the quality of the content. I do agree that some materials are with "too much sugar-coated".

But hey, it's not a prerequisite that you must have a degree/college education to take scuba diving.

Many of my students have degrees, some even have master degree, but in ART, ACCOUNTING, Communication,
These ppl are not as good with science and calculation of physics equation as those who have background in Engineering, Sciences, Medical sciences...

IMHO, putting an examples of how to calculated into the material may get some more attention from those with sciences background,
But it would be a turn-off for those with art degree.

Further, there are those who have only grade 9-equvalent who work their way up in the dive shop or on the boat from something like messboy to DM.
these ppl would do well with just generalized materials.

All in all, the pricing issue could become more problematic soon...
but I still see that the material is suit for its purpose..
If possible, the Instructor should be able to help with more practice on anything, be it calculation, practicing skills, etc.

 

[espenskogen]

espenskogen: I have seen some crew paks for sale here to PADI pros that do include the PIC card. Obviously, students can't buy them :11doh: Given that the PIC card alone costs over THB 1,000 (Thai Baht), maybe these price comparisons lose their validity.

Ok, interesting. If you order the crew pack from Padi, at least from Padi International, you only get the book, the tables (for OW) and a student record file. Maybe it's some bundle the retailer sorts out - I don't know...

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[espenskogen]

If I want to display the BBB sticker on my business, I have to shell out a bunch to the Better Business Bureau. What is the difference in PADI membership and BBB membership as far as the point you are making?

Absolutely nothing - Just saying that as a Padi member as in Divemaster and above, you can use the Padi Logos to promote YOU - But not your business. You need to be an IRRA member to do that.

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[espenskogen]

Alcina, do you know if this "training update" is a desire to phase out the LDS "libraries" of checking out DVD's and manuals?

Yes, the standards update comes from a desire from Padi to stop the 'library' model - Not so much for the DVD, the Country manager in the UK said it's quite acceptable for the shop to have one copy of the DVD and either lend it to people or screen it in the classroom. But the books must be owned by each student, unless you have a family all residing at the same address, in which case they can share one manual.

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[ae3753]

Really? they sell books? Any good ones on the PADI DM type questions?

Whoops. I meant that ScubaToys has web pages on diving physics with examples. I may order Dennis Graver's 100 Best Scuba Quizzes, since his Scuba Diving book is very good.

There are so many anal retentive freaks on this forum that think that every last cubic inch of air must be calculated...with 18 layers of redundancy built in.

As for calculating air and knowing what the appropriate turn pressure is, that's important stuff. For recreational dives, having a cheat sheet of tank sizes and depths with turn pressures may be enough, but it's necessary to understand why the numbers are what they are. There's a lot of assumptions built in, and not everyone consumes air at the same rate. Also, in different conditions, the same person consumes air at a different rate.

Diving in cold water, I see huge ranges in people's consumption. For example, this past weekend, my last dive was 32 minutes. Another buddy team diving the same profile had a 60 minute dive. Both dives were with new OW divers (congrats!), and they were both turned on air.

So do you know if you start your ascent with X psi, is that enough air for you and your buddy if there was an OOA situation? Maybe, maybe not. Hopefully it is, but I would like to think that everyone's life is worth the few minutes it takes to learn about this stuff.

 

[Christi]

I stand by what I said about the logo. I had an e-mail and a phone conversation from the operation effected. They (two dues paying PADI Instr/DM's) have removed the logo even though they still offer the services of said agency.They say PADI requires "another set of dues" if you have a website selling PADI instruction unless the name is "Sally Jones Diving", even if there is no "facility".

Hope that is insightful in some small way. LIke I said, Beyond NAUI O/w I have PADI certs but have never made one dollar diving. I don't really have a vested interest one way or another.

I got the same call/e-mail as did another friend of mine on the island...I had the PADI logo on my site but had to remove it since my operation is not called Christi Courtney dive center. In order to use the logo on a website or other printed materials as a shop, you have to pay the dues to become a PADI facility...I wasn't happy about this either considering that myself and every dive master and instructor who works for me are PADI Instructors or Divemasters.

 

[Diver Dennis]

Hmmmm. Thanks for the confirmation Christi. In my opinion that is a money grab, especially considering you are all PADI.

 

[Cacia]

Christi, thanks for posting. I was feeling a little defensive about this. The funny thing to me was PADI saying that if your business is your NAME then you did not have to pay business dues. There are a lot of dive businesses here called "Jack Aarron's Diving" or "Mike Severens Diving"....minor point but interesting. I wonder if this enforcement is new. Evidently, it sounds like you got the exact same explanation as my friends.


AE, that is so cool Scubatoys did that! They are very popular, aren't they? I will have to check that out. I think that is a great thing for Instructor's to know....wow, its just hitting me, the business genius of the person who thought THAT up. Imagine you are an OW student, or a DM, student and you hear that. I bet that could get a lot of the "right" traffic to their site! Glad you posted, I plan to pass that news around.

 

[espenskogen]

Christi, thanks for posting. I was feeling a little defensive about this. The funny thing to me was PADI saying that if your business is your NAME then you did not have to pay business dues. There are a lot of dive businesses here called "Jack Aarron's Diving" or "Mike Severens Diving"....minor point but interesting. I wonder if this enforcement is new. Evidently, it sounds like you got the exact same explanation as my friends.

Did a bit of digging on the padi members website, and this is what the licensing agreement says:

This license extended by PADI shall only be with respect to (1.) Printed advertising and promotional materials, (newspaper and periodical advertisements, telephone-directory advertising, handbills and signs); (2.) Film and video format promotional materials such as television commercials, slide shows or promotional videos; and (3.) Software, fixed media, such as floppy disks, hard drives or CD-ROM,
or any interactive digital or broadcast media or methods, including, but not limited to, internet or World Wide Web Sites; none of which shall include use on any item or product intended for resale. The word "PADI" (padi) may not be used in internet domain names. The foregoing license for advertising and promotional use shall in all respects follow the exact format, character, general appearance, type style, background and proportions of the marks originating from PADI. In no case shall the marks be combined with other marks, symbols, language or be in a format and appearance other than that actually used by PADI. The full trademark must be used; truncated or partial use of a mark is not authorized.
This license shall be personal to the individual member and shall be nontransferable, nondivisible and not capable of being sublicensed in any manner through any party.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, PADI shall have the sole right to disapprove of any promotional materials prepared and shall be the sole judge of the criteria of whether it meets the standard of this license agreement. To this end, any suggestions or requests by authorized members of the PADI staff as to the usage of the marks shall be complied with as soon as possible to avoid mistakes, deceptions, dilution or other problems that would be detrimental to the foregoing marks.

I believe this is what it comes down to. If you use the logo to advertise "Deep sea scuba adventures" it's not personal to the individual member, therefore you need a IRRA membership. If you advertised 'Catherine's Scuba Adventures', it's personal, and hence allowed. I wonder how it is interpreted if 'Catherine's Scuba Adventures' employs 10 instructors - I expect that suddenly isn't personal anymore, since you are marketing services which you then subcontract - But I guess we'd have to ask a lawyer about that.


Anyway, the license agreement is straightforward - It's just that nobody actually bothers to read it, since most of us would rather poke ourselves in the eyes with a pencil than read all that legalese.. (It should of course be clear to everyone that I am now sitting here with bleeding eyes...)


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[Cacia]

Well, another point is that perhaps they were not enforcing it too much, and suddenly they are. Looking at sites, and calling places that have been doing it for years, selling PADI services, and now, being told to "cease and desist". For right or wrong, it is getting some backs up. They certainly have the right, I was questioning if it will be a good business move for them, in the long run. That point, my main one, has been a little lost. You certainly cleared some things up here....