The continuing sagas of the Blue Heron Bridge

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Here is an idea I want to run by all the regulars of the BHB and get feedback.....
Each weekend, those of us with video look for the Best class of students ( best trim, best control by instructor, least silting and destruction, least destructive to the BHB area) and, we also shoot the WORST class --the class with the most silting, the most confusion, the worst instructor supervision, the worst collisions into the bottom, and the worst for the Zen of everyone there.

We can post candidate videos for best and worst every week, and then reward the best with the distinction they deserve, and reward the worst with the FEEDBACK THAT SHOULD MAKE THEM DO BETTER IN THE FUTURE!!!
We can award a few levels of "runners up" for each of the 2 categories, when appropriate.

In not too long a period of time, certain instructors, and certain dive shops, will gain either a well rewarded reputation for teaching excellent classes, or if they are really bad ( by popular vote), then they will be in many videos new prospective students can view to determine who would be good or not good to gain instruction from...
We could do a GREAT SERVICE to new people interested in diving, AND we can help Dive Shops to know that Great Dive Instructors are worth their weight in gold--and poor ones need to be doing something else

What do you guys think? And do we have any resident attorneys that could suggest whether this would be likely to get us sued by a really bad shop--one they we make very famous for their poor instruction

IMHO, this whole line of thought about instructors and students at BHB is a large waste of time.

Instructors have been teaching there for a long time, and will continue to teach students there for a long time. It is a "muck" dive, a dive location where there are plenty of places to teach students safely and there is no damage to the ecosystem.

The bridge has undergone construction, hurricanes, boats sinking, dredging, boat traffic, extra hot summer tides that ruined coral, extra cold tides that have ruined coral, and bad divers. Life goes on and life will continue to go on. It is an estuary that is ever changing and will continue to change with the tide.

IMHO, busting the chops of instructors is a complete waste of time, except for getting instructors pissed off at "prima donna" photographers who think the bridge is there own.

I've observed a ton of photographers there who had no reason to have a camera in there hand as they lay on the bottom taking photos...

I for one, am tired of this line of thought and wish people would stop bringing it up to be rehashed.

 

[TheOldGuy]

The issue is not instructors who are in control of their class. It's instructors and shops exercising the absolute minimum standards because of economics.

There is damage done to the ecosystem at the bridge by this overload of inexperienced and under-trained Groupon students. The shop is getting less than the price of a single dive trip for the instruction, use of scuba gear, 4 ocean dives (2 from a boat), one pool session, course materials, and certification fees. They must supply a certified instructor and a dive master all in the hope that lots of cheap students will lead to lots of sales.

The maximum Open Water student/instructor ratio is 8/1. We see classes of 12 and 16 at the bridge. The silting and bumping, probing, grabbing of habitat is amazing. It may be a great marketing idea. But so far, the execution has been irresponsible.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

The maximum Open Water student/instructor ratio is 8/1. We see classes of 12 and 16 at the bridge. The silting and bumping, probing, grabbing of habitat is amazing. It may be a great marketing idea. But so far, the execution has been irresponsible.

I can only speak from a few years of experience when I say I have seen student/instructor ratios of 6/1 and student/instructor/dive master ratios of 5/1, but I have never witnessed any class with a student/instructor ratio 12 and 16/1. From personal instructor experience, the liability for this would far outweigh any monetary gain I would ever imagine with a group of uneducated divers.

You would have to show me pictures of a class/instructor ratio of this type for me to even consider those numbers true... I just don't believe any person would put the lives of 16 people in their own hands and take the chance of a wrongful death lawsuit...

This number is so unfathomable to me, I have posted the question in the Basic Scuba area...

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...dive-instructor-ratio-16-1-a.html#post5945115

 

[danvolker]

I can only speak from a few years of experience when I say I have seen student/instructor ratios of 6/1 and student/instructor/dive master ratios of 5/1, but I have never witnessed any class with a student/instructor ratio 12 and 16/1. From personal instructor experience, the liability for this would far outweigh any monetary gain I would ever imagine with a group of uneducated divers.

You would have to show me pictures of a class/instructor ratio of this type for me to even consider those numbers true... I just don't believe any person would put the lives of 16 people in their own hands and take the chance of a wrongful death lawsuit...

I have a hard time knowing which are the instructors and which are the students in some of these classes..if you watched the "silting video" I put a link to, all of the divers are terrible, including the one that appears to be "leading" the onslaught. There may have been a poorly skilled DM along with the poorly skilled Instructor...
If we start shooting more detailed videos, this could be more possible to determine.

If you did see a video in which there was absolutely no doubt in your mind that unsafe supervision and dangerously negligent training was taking place..would this justify the videos being shot on weekends? Right now, MOST of us can tell "horor stories" on what we have observed, but without the proof of the video, these are pretty useless to accomplish anything with.

Exactly WHY does some dive shop have some inalienable right to turn crystal clear water into a zero vis siltout, at the expense of all other divers at the park?
If you believe they have this RIGHT, then what prevents us from having the RIGHT to attempt to embarrass them for the bad behavior?


And before someone chimes in with this, a great majority of us NEVER silted ocean sites on our first dives.... I know I never did....this is like some concept of enforced mediocrity...it should not be accepted, and the regulars of the BHB SHOULD NOT be passive like a herd of sheep.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

I have a hard time knowing which are the instructors and which are the students in some of these classes..if you watched the "silting video" I put a link to, all of the divers are terrible, including the one that appears to be "leading" the onslaught. There may have been a poorly skilled DM along with the poorly skilled Instructor...
If we start shooting more detailed videos, this could be more possible to determine.

If you did see a video in which there was absolutely no doubt in your mind that unsafe supervision and dangerously negligent training was taking place..would this justify the videos being shot on weekends? Right now, MOST of us can tell "horor stories" on what we have observed, but without the proof of the video, these are pretty useless to accomplish anything with.

Exactly WHY does some dive shop have some inalienable right to turn crystal clear water into a zero vis siltout, at the expense of all other divers at the park?
If you believe they have this RIGHT, then what prevents us from having the RIGHT to attempt to embarrass them for the bad behavior?


And before someone chimes in with this, a great majority of us NEVER silted ocean sites on our first dives.... I know I never did....this is like some concept of enforced mediocrity...it should not be accepted, and the regulars of the BHB SHOULD NOT be passive like a herd of sheep.

Maybe we should just get a big stake, put them on trial and burn them...?

If you want to make it your life's endeavor to out "bad" instructors, I see that as a personal issue. Honestly, I have too many pictures to take underwater, rather than look "up the skirt" of a entire dive class to watch them silt out in their rental gear... Way too many other things to do with my life and my dive.... That includes helping new divers improve their buoyancy, trim and finning techniques.

As it is, ForceE thought this whole "instructor/student bashing issue" was being propagated by me, until I explained that I have nothing to do with the "Blue Heron Bridge Dive Club" and the extreme views some people have on that page on facebook.

But, go for it, if it makes you feel superior, because that is the only thing I believe will be accomplished by such an endeavor.

 

[danvolker]

Maybe we should just get a big stake, put them on trial and burn them...?

But, go for it, if it makes you feel superior, because that is the only thing I believe will be accomplished by such an endeavor.

Wow. Your reaction really floors me. If you were out at your favorite really good restaurant, enjoying your favorite meal, would you want a guy at the next table smoking a cigar and farting, while picking his nose? Would you be willing to say something to someone, if this was going to happen each time you went there?
But hey, maybe you like these smells at the BHB

 

[pjohnson]

Here is an idea I want to run by all the regulars of the BHB and get feedback.....
Each weekend, those of us with video look for the Best class of students ( best trim, best control by instructor, least silting and destruction, least destructive to the BHB area) and, we also shoot the WORST class --the class with the most silting, the most confusion, the worst instructor supervision, the worst collisions into the bottom, and the worst for the Zen of everyone there.

We can post candidate videos for best and worst every week, and then reward the best with the distinction they deserve, and reward the worst with the FEEDBACK THAT SHOULD MAKE THEM DO BETTER IN THE FUTURE!!!
We can award a few levels of "runners up" for each of the 2 categories, when appropriate.

In not too long a period of time, certain instructors, and certain dive shops, will gain either a well rewarded reputation for teaching excellent classes, or if they are really bad ( by popular vote), then they will be in many videos new prospective students can view to determine who would be good or not good to gain instruction from...
We could do a GREAT SERVICE to new people interested in diving, AND we can help Dive Shops to know that Great Dive Instructors are worth their weight in gold--and poor ones need to be doing something else

What do you guys think? And do we have any resident attorneys that could suggest whether this would be likely to get us sued by a really bad shop--one they we make very famous for their poor instruction

How in the world could you possibly make an accurate ID of the instructor and the dive shop? I have 50 dives at the bridge in the past year, some with students some without and I was at the sancturary meeting when you were there. I will be at the bridge this Saturday, I will have 7 students and the shop will have a group of certified divers taking a tour. Come up and introduce yourself, follow us with the camera if you like. Then next week, I will take some video of photographers laying on soft coral, bracing themselfs on walls and leaving there flag lines all over the place. I will pick from the list and maybe I get some names right, maybe I get some wrong. Really???

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Wow. Your reaction really floors me. If you were out at your favorite really good restaurant, enjoying your favorite meal, would you want a guy at the next table smoking a cigar and farting, while picking his nose? Would you be willing to say something to someone, if this was going to happen each time you went there?
But hey, maybe you like these smells at the BHB

Excellent analogy! In the restaurant, I move to another location at the restaurant and enjoy my meal... guess what I do at BHB?

 

[danvolker]

How in the world could you possibly make an accurate ID of the instructor and the dive shop? I have 50 dives at the bridge in the past year, some with students some without and I was at the sancturary meeting when you were there. I will be at the bridge this Saturday, I will have 7 students and the shop will have a group of certified divers taking a tour. Come up and introduce yourself, follow us with the camera if you like. Then next week, I will take some video of photographers laying on soft coral, bracing themselfs on walls and leaving there flag lines all over the place. I will pick from the list and maybe I get some names right, maybe I get some wrong. Really???

I figure the video people show up 2 hours early or more.....The students dont usually get in this early due to currents....We shoot people massing and obviously a class---stills would be fine, just easier facial recognition than U/w, but you would see the wetsuits and general look of each group. Later, if the group is really good, we praise the daylights out of them...if a group is really bad, we make sure others get to see the diveshop and group in water, and draw their own conclusions.

I want good instructors and their students to use the bridge. I think it is good forthe area. I dont want classes like the one in the silting video YouTube - ‪silting-instruction‬‏ .

The photographers are actually making an effort to be better about all of this....have you notices how many are frog kicking now, and watching their trim and bouyacy? The ones doing damage should have a friend alert them to the damage---I dont know of any photographers at the BHB that would purposely damage the marine life at the park. There are a few without enough situational awareness yet, to always be doing the right thing--and I think they would want to know.

I am doing a boat dive Saturday, or I would be happy to shoot some video of you and your class--hopefully to show everyone the RIGHT WAY for a class to be conducted. If you would like this though, I am sure we can arrange this soon.


Let me say this again..there are some instructors out there that do a phenomenol job of teaching bouyancy and trim, and how to move around. Maybe we should start by just trying to shoot the really GOOD classes, and then suggest to all new divers that their class should be somethng like this ??

 

[DennisS]

How much interest is there in watching youtubes of dive classes at the BHB, good, bad, indifferent. I can't think of anything more boring than watching an OW class underwater, silt or no silt. I just can't see people taking the time to watch them.


Quick, look, look, that newbies kicking up silt, YAWN!