The Cheap or the Dead

[masterproscuba]

Hello Divers,


I am new to this board and was looking for a way to get some opinions from other divers about a possible solution to a scuba equipment problem. I am interested in mitigating the risk of out-of-air emergency at a low cost without sacrificing the true effectiveness and reliability of the air supply. I simply do recreational scuba diving and am happy in open water. Tech diving and confined space diving is currently outside my skill level so I would not be using the set up for anything but open water diving. I am also not interested in asking about this scenario at a dive shop because dive shop owners are salesmen and are looking to sell equipment like used car salesmen sell old Jeep Wranglers, I already know what opinion I will get at a dive shop.
Normally I would simply purchase a "spare-air" since it is designed for sport divers and does not require extensive training. The issue with this is that owning a "spare-air" or "pony scuba cylinder" will incur additional equipment and maintenance costs for something that will rarely be used. I do not dive enough to justify owning a scuba cylinders but in some instances I have dived in situations where a redundant air supply would be helpful. This situation has arisen when diving with new dive buddies whom I met through dive charters or dive shops. Any time you meet new people there is a level of uncertainty as to their true dependability in emergency situations. Having a redundant air supply would give an additional path to an emergency ascent or sharing of air at depth. The solution to this problem in my mind would simply be to buy a stage rigging system used for Tech side mount rigging and rent an extra scuba cylinder and regulator set and strap it to my belly after I jump in. I believe that a stage rigged cylinder would be the most versatile choice since the only needed equipment to actually purchase would some miscellaneous accessories. This would give me a reliable bailout if both primary air supply and dive buddy failed as opposed to a cold, fatal surprise. Divers any thoughts or experiences with this idea?

 

[chrpai]

You are wise in noticing the limitations of spare air.

If your goals are high quality and high value, I'd suggest looking for a cheap used 1st and 2nd stage on a 40" hose. Also pickup an SPG mounted on a 6" hose. Or, go for an inexpensive "button" SPG that mounts directly on the 1st stage.

Take a look at this site:

DIR-diver.com - Stagebottle rigging

Now just change up the design a little bit. Instead of using a stainless steel hose clamp to anchor the bottom of the rope, use a scuba tank cam strap. This allows you to easily switch the rigging from one tank to another without any tools. For a more turn-key system look at the Dive Rite Travel Stage Straps at:

Cylinder Stage/Deco/Sidemount Straps and Hose Retainers - Dive Gear Express

The devil is in the details but yes, you can spend a minimal amount of money on a 1st, 2nd, SPG and rigging and use it on an AL80 when you travel. An AL80 might seem massive but they actually ride pretty nice in the water once you get used to them. Just realize you'll probably have to add a few lbs to your weighting to consider the situation where you drain both your 1st and 2nd tank and still want to be neutral at the end of the dive.

You might start liking this so much you want to get an AL40 for your local diving. FWIW I spent <$400 for an AL40, ScubaPro MK20 / S550, Zeagle SPG on a 6" hose and stage rigging for both an AL40 and an AL80.

 

[GillScales]

Spair-air is not "designed for sport divers " it is designed for air crew personnel, who might need a few breaths in

The event of a water landing. It is however, marketed to sport divers for reasons I've yet to figure out, but

Probably greed/profit related.

 

[tplyons]

You might start liking this so much you want to get an AL40 for your local diving. FWIW I spent <$400 for an AL40, ScubaPro MK20 / S550, Zeagle SPG on a 6" hose and stage rigging for both an AL40 and an AL80.

View attachment 158421

I'm starting to notice that chrpai and I have very similar taste... besides using the same wetsuit and grinning from ear to ear, we have similar pony setups:

I have a very similar setup with my pony bottle. I bought an AL40, button gauge, MK2/R295 and a sling kit for all about $410. All brand new. When I travel, I'll be switching over to a cam band setup like he mentioned before. My current rig is "permanent" and requires tools to remove and install.

 

[chrpai]

The picture is actually old. The yoke MK20 has been replaced with a DIN Hog BP2. I wanted to go DIN and I picked up the Hog for an unspeakable price. I sold the MK20 for more then what the BP2 cost. My hose routing was different in that picture because I was asked to try something different for that dive. I didn't like it and the 1st stage points back the other way again.

Yes, very similar. You dive what works, as do I.

 

[Bob DBF]

Mitigation of OOA
1. Consult pressure gauge on a regular basis
2. Inform buddy of importance of #1
3. Maintain buddy contact and communication
4. Maintain your equipment properly
5. Maintain CESA skills

At this point, if for some reason I feel I need to carry backup, I grab my 19. I can sling a steel 72 or Al 80 if I try something adventurous.



Bob
------------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

 

[Colliam7]

I am interested in mitigating the risk of out-of-air emergency at a low cost without sacrificing the true effectiveness and reliability of the air supply. I simply do recreational scuba diving and am happy in open water.

Bob's 5 recommendations are good ones, irrespective of whether you decide to dive with a redundant air supply. I like the idea of redundancy, but I think that is best coupled with prevention.

I am also not interested in asking about this scenario at a dive shop because dive shop owners are salesmen and are looking to sell equipment like used car salesmen sell old Jeep Wranglers,

A rather broad generalization, not necessarily true in all cases. But, then, I have never had a car salesman try to sell me an old Jeep Wrangler.

I already know what opinion I will get at a dive shop.

Out of curiosity, what response do you believe that will be?

Normally I would simply purchase a "spare-air" since it is designed for sport divers and does not require extensive training.

Actually, purchasing a Spare Air is possibly an in efficient / relatively expensive solution, to provide only 3 cf (or less) of redundant air supply,

The issue with this is that owning a "spare-air" or "pony scuba cylinder" will incur additional equipment and maintenance costs for something that will rarely be used. The solution to this problem in my mind would simply be to buy a stage rigging system used for Tech side mount rigging and rent an extra scuba cylinder and regulator set and strap it to my belly after I jump in. I believe that a stage rigged cylinder would be the most versatile choice since the only needed equipment to actually purchase would some miscellaneous accessories. This would give me a reliable bailout if both primary air supply and dive buddy failed as opposed to a cold, fatal surprise.

A very reasonable, and relatively inexpensive, solution. It is also one that would work locally, and when traveling.

1. If you are currently renting cylinders, what are you renting? I will presume AL80s, but that is based on the presumption that you are in NA.

2. There is a lot of information available on the web on how to rig a stage / deco cylinder. It is relatively straightforward. I use either a 'standard' purchased rigging kit, or a cam band for the bottom with a couple of bolt snaps attached to some static line - one looped around the valve at the top, one threaded onto the cam band with a tri-glide. Either works fine.

3. Depending on location, you might find that the only cylinder available for rental is large - e.g. another AL80. There is nothing wrong with diving an AL80 as your pony bottle, you just need to figure out what effect it will have on your buoyancy and trim and make necessary adjustments. I prefer a smaller cylinder (30 or 40 cf)for pony use, but use an 80 at times.

4. If you elect to set up a redundant air supply, through renting an additional cylinder and regulator, it is a good idea to practice deploying it (a lot), so that doing so underwater becomes a rote task.

5. How often are you diving? If you are diving 12 times a year, you may find that the rental costs are actually as much as / more than the cost of a used cylinder and regulator. However, you would still have the maintenance costs that you mentioned.

 

[chrpai]

If you buy a tank at the right price and sell it at the right price your only cost is the hydro every 5 years and the vip every year. That should average to about $25/year. You're break even point should be about 5 dives a year.

Your real cost is servicing the reg every year. If it was me, I'd pass. Do a good inspection before each dive and use an IP gauge to check for IP lockup. If all looks good, odds are it'll keep working just fine for year after year after year.

 

[masterproscuba]

Hello Colliam7,

I am from North America. I do not really have dive frequency as it typically ranges from 20 dives on good years to 0 dives on tougher years. I could definitely see the purchase price for the setup paying for itself rather quickly. What makes me back away from buying the setup is simply the yearly maintenance costs. Although $25/year not much for most people, as you continually add up yearly expenses every dollar can count. Because the likely hood of using the set up allot is rather low I simply would not want to own it right away. With something like this - what I initially think is the best set up might end up being the worst set up after I try it out.

For me it can help to rent gear for a little while before I buy because I get to try and get a feel for the different styles of equipment. This helps me decide.

I am sure I would get good advice from a dive shop since they are experts, but they also have motive to sell equipment. This could bias their view slightly. It might not, but having a diverse group of opinions and different points of view is very helpful as opposed to the opinions of two sales oriented local dive shop owners.

I like to rent the steel 80 cylinders or the Al80's.
chrpai's insights are very helpful as well. I actually have an old set of regs I had inspected three years ago that do work but, But because there is no warranty on them I have not considered using them. Maybe I'll dust them off the next time I am out on Lake Michigan to try out a stage rig using a 80 rental tank. I'll gab some extra weights.


Thanks!

 

[MKrauter]

Just wondering, do you need to take a course to use pony bottles? Or is it simply up to you to find a mentor/instructor willing to show you how to mount/deploy/stow them?