The case against ditchable weight

[cool_hardware52]

How many people have you heard about that surface in distress then sink back down and drown. If the diver was weighted properly they would have to fight to get back down, especially at the end of a dive.
The only time I could see a diver possibly being neutral or very slightly negative at the surface would be in warm water with just a bathing suit on.

Really? this is an actually thing? Who knew?

Seems others on this board haven't yet heard of this yet. You might want to memo Dumpster diver………….

Tobin

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

The other thing I want to add is that with these integrated weight systems: They went from velcro that didn't work well and wore out to plastic squeeze clips that stay better. But in this climate of overweighting, how easy would it be for a distressed diver on the surface to fiddle with those clips with thick gloves and/or numb fingers that don't work well. With a weight belt it's a one handed pull and release. I understand some people don't like weightbelts, but consider using a heavier plate maybe with a few added weights and keep the weight belt minimal, like 10 or 12 lbs. Those rubber belts work very well for comfort and they don't slip.

Maybe part of the reason Velcro doesn't work well to hold in those pockets is because they weren't designed to hold the enormous amounts of weight some divers are putting in them?

---------- Post added December 3rd, 2015 at 12:12 AM ----------

The message concerning ditchable ballast was so effectively ingrained that I have had many ask, after I have explained that with little to no exposure suit that their regulator and bare bones BP&W is likely all the ballast they will need, if they should add a weight belt so they will have something to drop.

Start with a naked, fit diver and hand them a reg, full al 80 and a kydex plate and harness. They are now about -6lbs. Should they add a belt so they have something to drop?

We both know that's silly, but I have this conversation at least once a week.


Tobin

Kind of my point.
I suppose if they want to be elevator divers then by all means they can pile on a bunch of weight they don't need then they can dump air for a brick drop and stand on the inflator to stop, then add some more to go up. They better hope that nothing happens to that big bag of air they're so desperately reliant on, even though they may not know it yet.
Then at their safety stop they can sit there with a half full BC of air constantly feathering the inflator back and forth adjusting for every few feet of depth change.

Madness

 

[Storker]

I can't give you a page # in the OW manual, but I still remember that one of the questions on my OW "exam" involved rating alternative actions for an OOA situation at depth. Ditching weights was the absolute last resort. Colliam7's list looks eerily familiar.

Our instructor also stressed this point during the classroom sessions, but I might of course have been exceptionally lucky with which instructor I was given.

 

[NAM001]

The only time i had problems with ditchable weight was when i was searing a jacket and the weights were pocket weights. No one ditches weights unless the jacket will not lift them. no none vents their only means of lift to loosen the jacket enough to pull out the pocket weights to ditch. I know there are other configurations but that incident alone maee me start looking into better options. My selected option was the BPW. The only one time i needed to drop weight and that was when i switched form a 3mm shorty to a lavacore and I could barely stay on the surface with a overfilled lp120 wth H valves adn 2 reg setups. Now the issues with being too heavy. All my fault. changed exposure suit with out changing the steel plate for an al. 7# change to the negative Overfill on an already heavy tank 5-6# move to the negative. wing wa a 28# steel tanks in fresh water and other things i am sure. So yes it was preventable but happened just the same. It will happen to others also. Had i changed to the al plate i probably would not had the lift problem to the degree i had.

 

[boulderjohn]

I can't give you a page # in the OW manual, but I still remember that one of the questions on my OW "exam" involved rating alternative actions for an OOA situation at depth. Ditching weights was the absolute last resort. Colliam7's list looks eerily familiar.

Our instructor also stressed this point during the classroom sessions, but I might of course have been exceptionally lucky with which instructor I was given.

What Colliam7 wrote and what you remember has been a standard part of the course as long as I have been certified. The only difference over that time is that the list of options used to include buddy breathing as the last option before the buoyant ascent (dropping weights), but since that time it has been realized that buddy breathing is more dangerous than the buoyant ascent and has therefore been dropped as an option altogether.

 

[tursiops]

What Colliam7 wrote and what you remember has been a standard part of the course as long as I have been certified. The only difference over that time is that the list of options used to include buddy breathing as the last option before the buoyant ascent (dropping weights), but since that time it has been realized that buddy breathing is more dangerous than the buoyant ascent and has therefore been dropped as an option altogether.

Clarification for the newer divers:
"Buddy Breathing" here means one regulator shared by two people. This is the original use of the term. Today, the term also is used to mean when the buddy uses your alternate second stage (or your primary if you are on an Air2 kind so setup). Buddy Breathing, in the original sense, is still taught and required at the professional level, but is no longer taught in OW classes because if not practiced all the time and done without panic, both divers can die. Hey, if OW divers won't even practice alternate air source ascents, or removing the LPI hose if the inflator gets stuck open, why would you expect them to practice buddy breathing? Not to mention CESAs.

 

[BRT]

I think weight integrated BC's are flawed both in concept and in design of every different style unit I've seen.
First off, IMO having all weight put into the BC is a bad idea. If the diver ever needed to remove the BC at depth for any reason, the unit goes down and the diver goes up. This leaves the diver holding onto his lifeline for dear life.
I prefer the system where both the diver and rig are neutral at depth.
I also take issue with the modern way of weighting where a fully suited diver cannot stay on the surface with a deflated BC and a full tank. I can't think of a time when a diver should be weighted so heavily that if their BC fails on the surface they will sink, even with a full tank.
I think way to much reliance has been placed on the BC for mandatory surface floatation because of overweighting, and that would also mean that the BC would then become an "elevator" device during the dive as well.
How many people have you heard about that surface in distress then sink back down and drown. If the diver was weighted properly they would have to fight to get back down, especially at the end of a dive.
The only time I could see a diver possibly being neutral or very slightly negative at the surface would be in warm water with just a bathing suit on.

If the diver will not sink with an empty BCD and a full tank how will they hold a safety stop with an empty BCD and a close to empty tank? They will be 5 to 7 lb positive.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Clarification for the newer divers:
"Buddy Breathing" here means one regulator shared by two people. This is the original use of the term. Today, the term also is used to mean when the buddy uses your alternate second stage (or your primary if you are on an Air2 kind so setup). Buddy Breathing, in the original sense, is still taught and required at the professional level, but is no longer taught in OW classes because if not practiced all the time and done without panic, both divers can die. Hey, if OW divers won't even practice alternate air source ascents, or removing the LPI hose if the inflator gets stuck open, why would you expect them to practice buddy breathing? Not to mention CESAs.

I can see the point now. Unless buddy breathing is practiced all the time and BOTH parties are exceedingly proficient it could become a real problem.
Two breaths turn into three, turn into four, next thing you know one diver refuses to give up the reg, an underwater fist fight breaks out, both divers freak and it's over.

Back to ditchable weight.
I think some should be ditchable, maybe half of the total unless the rig alone and components render the diver neutral, then no need for ditchable weight. The weight should be separate from the rig in a format that is easily ditched but should be securely attached to the diver until such time as needed to be jettisoned. It should also be removable quickly and easily by another person if needed.
None of these include integrated weight pockets of any sort, IMO.

 

[archer1960]

If the diver will not sink with an empty BCD and a full tank how will they hold a safety stop with an empty BCD and a close to empty tank? They will be 5 to 7 lb positive.

Yup. You need to be able to be very near neutral at the end of the dive, not at the beginning. Though I set my weights up to be neutral at ~6 ft, rather than at 15 ft, because of the amount of shallow-water shore diving I do. Often half the dive is in less than 20 ft of water...

 

[tursiops]

If the diver will not sink with an empty BCD and a full tank how will they hold a safety stop with an empty BCD and a close to empty tank? They will be 5 to 7 lb positive.

LOL! Don't confuse Eric's fantasy with your reality!