The benefit of specialties

[muteki]

I swam next to some Whale Sharks.. where's my card?

I have AOW and Nitrox. Nitrox has made a huge difference in my diving (and the cert is required to fill the tanks, with good reason), and AOW was good prep for deep dives and navigation, though not nearly as comprehensive as actually using those skills on a dive. As for most other specializations (not certs like Rescue, DM, etc), it doesn't "net" you anything unless you want to "net" knowledge, which should be the main goal. And I agree that the instructor makes it - I've lucked out on that end.

 

[ComputerX]

There are several reasons to take specialty classes.

One is that you need the card for something...

The second reason is because you want to acquire a certain set of skills....

The third reason to take specialties is simply to get a chance to spend time in the water with an instructor, and get some feedback on your general diving. Signing up for a class is an easy way to do this, whereas doing one-on-one work with an instructor can be more difficult to arrange and more expensive.

I would say that reasons two and three are good reasons for training, not certification. Though you point out that a class is sometimes easier than a private lesson. Around here (San Francisco Bay Area) there seem to be a lot of instructors; the LDS I have been going to lists 33 on their web page. Getting private lessons has been easy for me, and probably less expensive than group classes. I can see how that would be different elsewhere.

When I asked about "specialties" I was asking about the certification, not the training. It seems that the consensus is that, with exceptions, the certification matters little and the value of the training is dependent on the instructor.

That is what I suspected when I asked, but I wondered if a stack of PADI cards had a value that I hadn't thought of.

Thank you all, very much, for teaching me.

 

[spc751]

When I asked about "specialties" I was asking about the certification, not the training. It seems that the consensus is that, with exceptions, the certification matters little and the value of the training is dependent on the instructor.

That is what I suspected when I asked, but I wondered if a stack of PADI cards had a value that I hadn't thought of.

Thank you all, very much, for teaching me.

I guess I misunderstood your question. I thought you were talking about training and not card collecting. For me the only cards I have needed so far are AOW, Deep, Nitrox and Drysuit. (I have never needed a credit card because I always get a better price paying cash). I have taken other good courses where I learned a lot and have put the skills to good use but never needed the card.

One of the divers at my LDS (ssi) likes cards so he can say "I am a MASTER DIVER" and "I have taken EVERY course the shop offers". I dove with him once and that was enough.

I see nothing wrong with collecting cards. If you have the skill to go with the card no one has any reason to criticize, however, some people have to criticize other people just to make themselves feel better.

 

[rescuediva]

Hi there! A couple years ago I had the privilege of spending three weeks aboard a catamaran that we sailed around the BVI's. I earned my AOW along with Night, Wreck, Boat, Equipment Specialist, and Underwater Naturalist specialties. I suppose the benefits of these C cards is that it satisfies the 5 specialty requirement to become a PADI Master Scuba Diver; however, I have no desire to reach that level at the moment. I would argue that these specialties enhanced my diving abilities, but of these, Wreck Diving is the only C card that is necessary for certain dives. On the PADI flow chart located in most PADI manuals, you will see Wreck Diving and Ice Diving have asterisks next to them because they can only be done after completing the AOW course. What I didn't realize until working on the Wreck Diving course, is that often times, this C card is required to penetrate a wreck. You can swim all around a wreck to your hearts desire, but you must have training to actually swim through a wreck in which there is no immediate exit. During our third and fourth wreck dives, we were paired up and required to demonstrate our ability to create a baseline using a reel. The Instructor would pick three points on a wreck for us to do this and then check our work. But anyway, depending on how lax dive companies are, you might get away without a wreck diving certification, but this is one specialty I can think of where the actual C-card may be needed. Hope this inspires you to explore some wrecks!

 

[DevonDiver]

What I didn't realize until working on the Wreck Diving course, is that often times, this C card is required to penetrate a wreck. You can swim all around a wreck to your hearts desire, but you must have training to actually swim through a wreck in which there is no immediate exit. During our third and fourth wreck dives, we were paired up and required to demonstrate our ability to create a baseline using a reel. The Instructor would pick three points on a wreck for us to do this and then check our work. But anyway, depending on how lax dive companies are, you might get away without a wreck diving certification, but this is one specialty I can think of where the actual C-card may be needed. Hope this inspires you to explore some wrecks!

I've always been a bit incredulous of dive operations that 'require' the Wreck Diver certification for wreck penetration dives - but then fail to actually bother laying a guideline into the wreck when penetrating. There's little point doing training, if it's not applied thereafter. The use of guidelines, along with rule-of-thirds, and careful adherence to staying in the light zone is a core focus of Wreck Diver training for penetration. I see little evidence of that application of training from DMs that guide into recreational wrecks... only a tiny minority do.

 

[Skittl1321]

Each of the two certifications a $70 on top of the dive itself. The dive, about 35 minutes in the water, is $325 per person. No waterproof cameras allowed, but they will happily sell you a DVD for just $50 more.

Credit cards only. No cancellations. If the doc says you can't dive, well you can still pay, can't you?

I'd think the DVD is a better deal than the "certification".

Does the extra $70 at least get you some really good lectures about whale sharks that the insanely priced dive doesn't? (I guess they do have to price it high just to lower demand...)

 

[halocline]

The bottom line is that PADI, as well as the other major agencies, are for profit companies who's primary goal is to make money, both from the general public and their instructors/sales force. Nothing wrong with that in principle, but PADI seems to have practically turned into a pyramid scheme. If you're fortunate as a dive consumer/student, you'll encounter quality instructors that will really teach you something. But don't forget that the agency model is based on making money, not necessarily producing excellent divers.

 

[DevonDiver]

When I asked about "specialties" I was asking about the certification, not the training. It seems that the consensus is that, with exceptions, the certification matters little and the value of the training is dependent on the instructor.

Certification is just a 'proof of training', nothing more, nothing less. It's value lies only in providing verified evidence that you completed a specific syallabus of training to a given performance standard.

As a 'proof of training' it cannot show whether your course was conducted to a low or high standard. Because the quality of training varies, it inevitably is judged at the lowest common denominating standard.... and thus, doesn't mean much. A detailed logbook and/or connection to a reputable and known instructor goes a lot further into adding value to the certification - as these factors can provide further verifiable evidence that your training was of a superior standard.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Card collecting benefits an agency or instructor by increasing their profits by selling classes and C-cards. Should you be involved in a diving accident and attempt to sue, the more C-cards you have the more likely you are going to be seen as an "expert" diver.

Card collecting benefits the diver by giving you ample C-cards to stash in your wallet, your logbook, your dive bag, your passport holder, your glove compartment or whatever so that if you lose your luggage or if you decide to swing by a new dive shop for an air or gas fill when driving home from work or from diving you will have the documentation you need.

Card collecting benefits the young diver by giving him or her something extra to put on a resume when applying for jobs or to colleges and universities.

Card collecting benefits any divers who may want to become divemasters or instructors to meet minimum educational requirements or pad their resumes.

Card collecting benefits most divers if they choose their instructors wisely. For example, in my case as a freediving, tech and cave instructor trainer evaluator as well as being a GUE Tech 2 diver, I teach sport diving programs which reflect my education and experience.

Some examples:
The snorkeling portion of my open water program is more like a quality freediving class. The scuba portion of open water is more like UTD-essentials, GUE-F or TDI Intro to Tech in a single tank. My night diving specialty class is more like taking a cavern course without the overhead. On Halloween, I run advanced or intro to tech classes in a haunted wreck decorated like a haunted house with a myriad of challenges like a scuba version of Saw.

Education can also be had without getting C-cards by signing up for coaching sessions. Some instructors, including myself, promote mini-courses and personal training/coaching.

One problem with specialties anymore is that they reflect very little other than what Andy said about proving a diver was introduced to a curriculum. In the hands of the right instructor, underwater basket weaving could be the world's best course! Imagine having to weave a basket while maintaining team, trim, buoyancy, moving in a horizontal position down and up in blue water simulating decompression slides while dealing with failures and having to weave a basket as a team?

Too many low-quality specialties taught by too many mediocre instructors devalue specialty training. It's a shame when a diver is hesitant to sign up for a good program because of poor experiences with past additional training.

 

[radtype]

If you are looking for training, get the best instructor possible. A good instructor is worth the cost.
As far as speciality training or a card, if you are interested, go for it.