The Aqualung Discussion [ Moved ]

[jwdiverdude]

Since this thread has taken a "life" beyond the original question of "What happened to the Aqualung thread?", should we ask a mod to retitle the subject of it to something like "Aqualung discussion thread" and move it out of "site support" to somewhere like an equipment/manufacturer forum? (inputs anyone?)

Mike I think the core of us are keeping to topic but there are always hijackers out there.
Changing the name of the thread or moving it doesn't change the spirit or intent.
That AL, and I am sure they aren't alone on this, engages in business practices that place limits on their authorized dealers that are hampering the dealers abilities to stay competitive with an unchecked gray market.
They:
1. refuse to allow any authorized dealer to use the internet as a means of selling their product.
2. do little to stiffle the gray market
3. have pricing policies that if violated can result in their pulling their dealership authorization.

Check this board, and others, they are laden with similar threads and aguments about LDS vs gray marketers where many state they don't care about warranties and other offers wouldn't serve as incentive to sway them from getting rock bottom price on their purchase, so the free classe, an air fill card, a free charter, etc.. end up being only marginal counters to obstacle of not being able to compete on price.

Item 3 is price fixing, wikipedia definition or not, being held to an absolute minimum price or AL will no longer supply you with their product that is price fixing. What business do they have telling a dealer what price to sell his inventroy for. The product was already paid for on the manufactures end. Good shop dealers have the pulse of their particualr market and should be able to price accordingly to make sales and ensure their own success.

 

[Dave in PA]

<<clip>>OK, if I can direct your attention to the Aqualung Website, do a Dealer search for dealers near ZIP 10003, the closest dealer is called Paragon Sporting Goods Co LTD.

<<clip>> Now, if you Google Paragon Sporting Goods, you will find a website called paragonsports.com. Everyone there? Now, if you look at their address, you will see it is next door to the AL authorized dealer, as a matter of fact they are at 867 Broadway. Now, scroll down to the bottom and click on the word "brands", listed in alphabetical order, online products include Aqualung. I am checking to see if they can get me a Legend series reg.......

I received an email confirming that the Legend series regs are available, and I should call them to place the order. How hard would it be for AL to follow up on this type of sale? Policies need to be enforced across the board, if they are going to cut off Phil, then they need to follow up on the rest of their dealers, too, OR CHANGE THE POLICIES.

 

[cerich]

I received an email confirming that the Legend series regs are available, and I should call them to place the order. How hard would it be for AL to follow up on this type of sale? Policies need to be enforced across the board, if they are going to cut off Phil, then they need to follow up on the rest of their dealers, too, OR CHANGE THE POLICIES.

After you posting this you better pay and get it shipped today! LOL

Yes, they are breaking the rules (and who wouldn't in their shoes?)

If AL played fair they would pull Paragons dealership.
I actually wish you hadn't pulled Paragon into this because with this thread being well watched AL may feel they need to punish Paragon, otherewise it truly is not unilateral enforcement of their policies. (which it isn't)

I hope most of us here want the double standard to stop, not point out AL dealers that by being competetive are breaking the rules so that AL can punish more dealers...

 

[havnmonkey]

So what do we do? Do we stop buying on the grey market? Or do we stop paying AL's price at our LDS? I don't think we want to hurt the manufacturers, we just want a better industry. How do we get AL and the others to listen?

 

[Brandon]

After you posting this you better pay and get it shipped today! LOL

Yes, they are breaking the rules (and who wouldn't in their shoes?)

If AL played fair they would pull Paragons dealership.
I actually wish you hadn't pulled Paragon into this because with this thread being well watched AL may feel they need to punish Paragon, otherewise it truly is not unilateral enforcement of their policies. (which it isn't)

I hope most of us here want the double standard to stop, not point out AL dealers that by being competetive are breaking the rules so that AL can punish more dealers...

It's a horrible double standard, and it would be unfortunate if any more shops had their dealerships pulled as a result of it.

On the other hand... if more shops get their dealerships pulled, it's only going to fuel the angst towards Aqualung and bring about policy change sooner.

Aqualung can't continue on with this policy for much longer... something has to change. It just doesn't seem like they're interested in doing so.

They're a huge company... and huge companies only care about money. There's money in the way they're running things now... at least for the moment. Until that changes, the policy will not change.

-Brandon.

 

[Brandon]

So what do we do? Do we stop buying on the grey market? Or do we stop paying AL's price at our LDS? I don't think we want to hurt the manufacturers, we just want a better industry. How do we get AL and the others to listen?

You could:

Start a letter writing campaign to local dive shops / the AL shareholders.

Picket AL corporate headquarters.

Circulate pamphlets / protest at dive industry trade shows.
​

Just a few ideas...

-Brandon.

 

[vox]

All...

I've watched this thread, as well as the parent thread that was removed, with great interest.

I'm a new diver and I'm looking to buy equipment. Specifically, regulators.

My immediate impression is this: What. A. Racket!

Let me see if I got this straight:
If you buy on the net, you run the risk of buying "grey market", no warranty or, and this one I like the most, you potentially alienate yourself from your LDS because they won't service your stuff because you saved 25-50% (not including sales tax) and got it somewhere else. But, the manufacturers won't support their LDS dealers by enforcing, what appears to be, arbitrary minimum price thresholds.

So, damned if you do, damned if you don't, eh?

Nice.

Is it like this with all the other brands as well?

I'm getting that "used car salesman alert" feeling now.

 

[DandyDon]

So what do we do? Do we stop buying on the grey market? Or do we stop paying AL's price at our LDS? I don't think we want to hurt the manufacturers, we just want a better industry. How do we get AL and the others to listen?

You could:

Start a letter writing campaign to local dive shops / the AL shareholders.

Picket AL corporate headquarters.

Circulate pamphlets / protest at dive industry trade shows.
​

Just a few ideas...

-Brandon.

Feel good ideas with some possible merit, but - why would you not want to hurt AL? Consider buying other brands. I've never bought AL, and I have twice as much stuff as I need. :blush:

Let me see if I got this straight:
If you buy on the net, you run the risk of buying "grey market", no warranty or, and this one I like the most, you potentially alienate yourself from your LDS because they won't service your stuff because you saved 25-50% (not including sales tax) and got it somewhere else. But, the manufacturers won't support their LDS dealers by enforcing, what appears to be, arbitrary minimum price thresholds.

So, damned if you do, damned if you don't, eh?

Nah, start with ScubaToys.com, as everything they sell is authorized and covered. I use them as an example, tho, only because they're the most obvious on SB. There are many others.

I might check LP and print out their offer, as well as ST, then go to my LDS and say: "I certainly don't want to buy from LP, and while ST is a good company, I'd like to try to buy from you - at these prices." My LDS gets it done on their brands; for Oceanic, I go with ST.

 

[redacted]

Is it like this with all the other brands as well?

I'm getting that "used car salesman alert" feeling now.

Scubapro has similiar dealer agreements and policies. And has a similiar track record in failing to curtail the grey market supply. I believe they made a small inroad into the LP supply channel a couple years ago when they shut down a major grey market supplier in Europe. But it seemed to have only made a temporary crimp in that market.

Recently a large shop in TX dropped the SP line when they continued to prohibit internet sales and restricted competetive pricing.

Most major mfgrs used to have similiar policies but have loosed up a bit. Still pretty far from a "free" market though in most cases.

Check around with your LDSs for some quality used gear. You can get high quality gear at quite a savings, the LDS make a sale and should be happy to provide future support, and mfgr --- makes a few bucks on service kits. It's a win - win deal for you and your LDS.

 

[havnmonkey]

I don't want to hurt AL, SP, or any other manufacturer because ultimately they make our equipment. They need our money to make better gear. AL has been around a long time and as far as I've heard they have good gear... however, they are ethically challenged.

I want them to understand that they need us and the LDS's around. Innovations in the SCUBA industry will only come from a diverse market, thus we shouldn't want AL's expertise and insight to go away. We do want them to stop acting like babies.

A court ruling on this is necessary... there needs to be a precedent on whether or not AL's price restrictions, and bias enforcement of it's "rules" for retailers, are legal or not.