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The 20 Skills Broken Down

Discussion in 'Going Pro' started by lishen, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. b1gcountry

    b1gcountry Divemaster

    # of Dives:
    Location: Middle
    1,691
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    John-
    I'm trying to understand what you're saying...You have the students buoyant in the shallow end...as in face down on the surface?

    Tom
     
  2. boulderjohn

    boulderjohn Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Boulder, CO
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    Here is what I do in CW 1.

    1. We suit up and I have them operate all th BCD controls.

    2. They inflate their BCDs and lay forward on the surface for a while, getting the feel of breathing while floating.

    3. We talk about how they feel.

    4. I have them do it again, this time swimming around the shallow end while breathing off their regs.

    5. I have them continue swimming, slowly letting out air as they feel comfortable. Eventually they are swimming around neutrally buoyant, half way between the surface and the bottom.

    6. We talk about that.

    7. I introduce and explain the first skills (clearing reg/ reg recovery).

    8. We drop under the surface and assume a position roughly 45 degrees. Their fin tips are touching, and their knees might be slightly touching--I don't make a big deal out of it--the key is that they are in something like a fin pivot position, with their bodies buoyant and reasonably near a swimming position. I am the same mode. I demo the skills, and they do them. The regulator recovery skills are ridiculously easy in this position. When they start to sweep, the regulator falls over the shoulder immediately. When they use the reach method, the hose is right next to the ear. Contrast that with what you may have seen while kneeling. The regulators and hoses are not in a natural diving position, and it is much, much harder to find them

    The rest of the skill work continues in that fashion. Mask clearing is also much more natural--there is a reason to raise your head as you do it, which is not true while kneeling. Alternate air also looks like the real thing.
     
  3. Matt83

    Matt83 Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives:
    Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL
    69
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    Listen, this was never suppose to turn into an argument of what style of instruction works beter. I dont claim to be an experienced instructor. Also, I have respect for the amount of years some of the instructor on this post have put in. As I have told Thal in private messaging, I agree there is a lot for me to learn and I have no problem admiting that I am a young instructor. However, that is not why I posted such a strong response to Thal. The comments made toward a video someone posted (trying to be helpful) were over the top. In my opinion, it would have been more helpful to comment on the video a little more positively than to tear apart every bit of the video. Comments are appriciated, however, trying to make someone feel as though their post is unappriciated was unnecessary. To respond to Charles, I never once wanted to say that what Thal said about the video was wrong. Speaking to him in private posts I made it clear that I agreed with many comments he made. What I did want to show was the responces I would get when argueing a comment or a series of comments so strongly. I think it is clear the response that comes from being one sided. Now, based on the fact that I made a few strong comments, you felt inclined to question me as an instructor. I felt the same way when I saw Thal post almost 30 negative comments without one ounce of positive feedback toward that video. We are not here to argue or put eachother down, rather to discuss different points of view. I understand and accept that our points of view will always be different in some cases, but I am seeing more and more that some people can not accept that. Thank you all for your posts, but understand please, if you are going to be negative toward a post someone else may be negative right back. If you can not accept this please just read and do not post.
     
  4. Thalassamania

    Thalassamania Diving Polymath ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: On a large pile of smokin' A'a, the most isolated
    22,171
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    That's one of the dialectical threads of everything in the I2I Forum.
    We all understand what your response was about. As I stated earlier I have no interest in teaching the OP anything, he's not my student, I choose whom I take as a student, he is a "peer" and I was simply reviewing a piece of his work that I found to be rather shoddy.
    If you want to tell him that his videos sucked in a nicer way, fine, knock yourself out, I have no objection, just be sure that he gets the message when you pull your punches.
    I don't know whom you are addressing here ... I know it's not me by the context.
    So what? That's the deal ... may the better arguement, the more accurate analysis, the clearing thinking, the truthful approach be left standing. That's the way it's supposed to work. We're all adults ... there's not need to play patty-cake on either side.
    Matt ... that's not the way it works. Its more like, "if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." There is nothing wrong with heated discussion and intense disagreement (as long as it stays inside to TOS). It is only through that sort of dialectic that ideas are tested and improved.
     
  5. Walter

    Walter Instructor, Scuba

    18,583
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    83
    Thanks. That is very helpful.

    True, but it looks to me like you turned it into a discussion of that when you said:

    Why do you think they were over the top? Videos were posted as being of demonstration quality. They weren't. Thal pointed that out and went out of his way to explain what needed to be fixed in the videos.

    I've gone back and reread every post between posts 62 and 83. I can't see where anyone has questioned you as an instructor.
     
  6. Jim Lapenta

    Jim Lapenta Dive Shop

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Canonsburg, Pa
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    If you want demonstration quality go to the videos in the same vein on you tube from 5thdx. There you will see basic mask clear, air share, etc done in a horizontal position while hovering. This is the way I demo for new OW students and expect them to be doing the same thing by the end of pool training to at least something resembling this. Will they be as stable and not vary depth. Hopefully, but realistically they have so far been able to do it while staying within 1- 1 1/2 feet of starting depth. The videos I saw are not what I would want demo'd to my students. the kneeling on the bottom and excessive finning on descent are not acceptable.
     
  7. Thalassamania

    Thalassamania Diving Polymath ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: On a large pile of smokin' A'a, the most isolated
    22,171
    2,770
    113
    Compare these:

    YouTube - Mask Removal and Replacement - Scuba

    YouTube - PADI Skills - Remove Mask

    YouTube - PADI Divemaster skills circuit Part 4

    Just so you know its not an agency bashing thing, here are some NAUI DMs,everyone one of which would have flunked our program over sitting on the bottom and gear control issues:

    YouTube - NAUI Divemaster Training - Watermanship Skills 9 Nov 2008

    Here's a better NAUI one (still on the bottom):

    YouTube - NAUI Leadership Skill - Skin Diving Ditch and Recovery

    We do the skin diving doff and don in 13 ft of water, with a 5 mil suit with mitts; and we leave our fins on but do weight belt instead.
     
  8. dhuskins

    dhuskins Divemaster

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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    Best advice for Pre-Dive Safety Check is Divemaster slate #1, side 2. It spells it out nicely.
     
  9. bill22

    bill22 Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Guam, USA
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    I'm a current Divemaster candidate with almost 400 dives (expecting to finish up Divemaster this month). I'm thinking in maybe another year, with more training, and at least a 100 more dives, I might be ready for instructor :coffee:

    Thanks to everyone who took the time to post... this thread has been quite educational and eye-opening :)
     
  10. BonaireDan

    BonaireDan IDC Staff Instructor

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Ohio, retiring to Bonaire within 5 years
    242
    0
    0
    Most interesting ande informative thread. Thanks everyone. Always something to learn.

    But, I am still waiting for lishen to finish listing the breakdown of skills 12-20..............

    Perhaps we can get back on topic of the OP ???
     

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