That pesky Medical Statement

[RayfromTX]

An interesting point is raised above. When an incident occurs, who runs to the filing cabinet and searches for the medical release form to see if there is anything on it that should be conveyed to the first responders?

 

[Lorenzoid]

What if the victim is unconscious, and a medical condition listed on the form could be of use perhaps not to the first responders but to hospital personnel? Okay, I suppose if someone has THAT kind of condition, he ought to be wearing a medical alert bracelet or something.

 

[dmaziuk]

I am not sure of the exact context of your comment, but medical statements are usually only required for instruction.

I think the starting point of this thread is that it isn't the case here. The part where the questionnaire asks for details they neither qualified to understand, nor have any business of knowing, is a bit of a tangent.

 

[dmaziuk]

An interesting point is raised above. When an incident occurs, who runs to the filing cabinet and searches for the medical release form to see if there is anything on it that should be conveyed to the first responders?

You keep your filing cabinet with all the release forms on all your boats at once? Or do you move it with the diver?

 

[ERRN]

sorry, i meant a regimented, protocol driven process like with the medical evaluation pre dive. My comment was in reference to several posts regarding not being allowed to dive due to medical clearance, not necessarily instruction, but just diving. Personally I have had to fill out medical clearance forms just to dive but that may be region or shop specific. i would hope and agree that most shops would prevent a diver from using unsafe equipment, but conversely i don't think I've ever seen a dive master or shop owner personally do more than glance at the gear. Basically, my point was they won't let you get into the water under their liability if you have a history of certain medical conditions, but you could jump right in/off the boat with a clogged first stage filter screen or broken dump valves if you are too stubborn, stupid, or unlucky to notice it. Not saying it should be a part of their job to check my gear, just pointing out what i see as an inconsistency regarding concern for you vs concern for their liability. Both HTN and a stuck inflator valve COULD cause a problem, but only one in my experience is actually addressed.

As far as fatalities I would agree with you most would be medical driven, and will cheerfully grant you the almost/none due to equipment. I am curious but don't know the stats for injuries short of death regarding gear vs medical issues. But from a HIPPA perspective I also have serious reservations about disclosing medical conditions to someone with no legal liability to secure, not disclose or fail to destroy my information. I also know that many heart attacks and strokes have minimal warning and short of mandating a negative cardiac stress test or carotid US prior to allowing someone to dive, i just think the screening (as it is now) has minimal practical worth, except to the dive shop. Personally, if i worked in a dive shop i would agree with the dive masters/instructors that it should be filled out honestly, because nobody want a dead body or an injury to themselves or others during a rescue. I am just pointing out there are a number of fallacies in the thought process of "safe/unsafe to dive" as it is practiced/mandated by PADI. I also wonder how many barotrauma/DCI or other issues arise due to panic/illness exacerbated by dehydration, hang overs, poorly tuned/maintained rental gear, bad fills, some combination or other factors that aren't covered in the medical screening. And it is hard to generalize, since i'm sure a 5 star padi shop in the states is run differently than a resort course out of a beachfront dive shop in Central America. At the end of the day i get the reasoning, just pointing out a few thoughts

 

[BRT]

sorry, i meant a regimented, protocol driven process like with the medical evaluation pre dive. My comment was in reference to several posts regarding not being allowed to dive due to medical clearance, not necessarily instruction, but just diving. Personally I have had to fill out medical clearance forms just to dive but that may be region or shop specific. i would hope and agree that most shops would prevent a diver from using unsafe equipment, but conversely i don't think I've ever seen a dive master or shop owner personally do more than glance at the gear. Basically, my point was they won't let you get into the water under their liability if you have a history of certain medical conditions, but you could jump right in/off the boat with a clogged first stage filter screen or broken dump valves if you are too stubborn, stupid, or unlucky to notice it. Not saying it should be a part of their job to check my gear, just pointing out what i see as an inconsistency regarding concern for you vs concern for their liability. Both HTN and a stuck inflator valve COULD cause a problem, but only one in my experience is actually addressed.

As far as fatalities I would agree with you most would be medical driven, and will cheerfully grant you the almost/none due to equipment. I am curious but don't know the stats for injuries short of death regarding gear vs medical issues. But from a HIPPA perspective I also have serious reservations about disclosing medical conditions to someone with no legal liability to secure, not disclose or fail to destroy my information. I also know that many heart attacks and strokes have minimal warning and short of mandating a negative cardiac stress test or carotid US prior to allowing someone to dive, i just think the screening (as it is now) has minimal practical worth, except to the dive shop. Personally, if i worked in a dive shop i would agree with the dive masters/instructors that it should be filled out honestly, because nobody want a dead body or an injury to themselves or others during a rescue. I am just pointing out there are a number of fallacies in the thought process of "safe/unsafe to dive" as it is practiced/mandated by PADI. I also wonder how many barotrauma/DCI or other issues arise due to panic/illness exacerbated by dehydration, hang overs, poorly tuned/maintained rental gear, bad fills, some combination or other factors that aren't covered in the medical screening. And it is hard to generalize, since i'm sure a 5 star padi shop in the states is run differently than a resort course out of a beachfront dive shop in Central America. At the end of the day i get the reasoning, just pointing out a few thoughts

Great points!

 

[dmaziuk]

I am curious but don't know the stats for injuries short of death regarding gear vs medical issues.

I expect part of it is if you can't breathe from your reg, you can breathe from your buddy's. You can't get your buddy's heart to pump your blood for you. I don't think you'll find much for gear failures on your typical recreational dives because, well, they aren't that dangerous. Not like, say, jumping off a cliff with a parachute tied into a knot.

 

[tursiops]

I guess it is time to point out (again) that the medical screening form's purpose is to ascertain if you *may* have any issues, i.e. you answer YES somewhere. If so, you get a doctor's signature, and that is what the dive OP needs. He does not need your YES/NO answers, just the signature. So just give him the signature in the first place. That signature (page 2 of the form) is good for 12 months, so just get a new one at your annual checkup. If he demands the page of YES/NO answers, ask why, is he an MD and will he sign a HIPAA statement for you? If he argues, tell him to call PADI.....they are very clear on this.

 

[uncfnp]

I guess it is time to point out (again) that the medical screening form's purpose is to ascertain if you *may* have any issues, i.e. you answer YES somewhere. If so, you get a doctor's signature, and that is what the dive OP needs. He does not need your YES/NO answers, just the signature. So just give him the signature in the first place. That signature (page 2 of the form) is good for 12 months, so just get a new one at your annual checkup. If he demands the page of YES/NO answers, ask why, is he an MD and will he sign a HIPAA statement for you? If he argues, tell him to call PADI.....they are very clear on this.

Except that apparently it is required by at least some instructors including The Chairman...

I understand the requirements a lot differently. No questionnaire means there's no class

And if you read the first paragraph, at least the online PADI version, it clearly states...

"Your signature on this statement is required for you to participate in the scuba training program offered"

 

[KeithG]

I guess it is time to point out (again) that the medical screening form's purpose is to ascertain if you *may* have any issues, i.e. you answer YES somewhere. If so, you get a doctor's signature, and that is what the dive OP needs. He does not need your YES/NO answers, just the signature. So just give him the signature in the first place. That signature (page 2 of the form) is good for 12 months, so just get a new one at your annual checkup. If he demands the page of YES/NO answers, ask why, is he an MD and will he sign a HIPAA statement for you? If he argues, tell him to call PADI.....they are very clear on this.

This is not a PADI issue. Dive shops are using the training medical questionaire as part of their release for ordinary everyday diving. No training is involved. Hence PADI is not involved.