That pesky Medical Statement

[TMHeimer]

You do know that the signature on page 2 of the RSTC form is only valid for 12 months?

Yeah I knew that back then, just never had a reason to get new ones signed.

I was thinking that a possible way to resolve all issues may be to re-word the YES/NO list to make it relevant to diving. Such as:
____ hernia becomes: ____hernia recent enough to cause problems lifting heavy objects (such as weights, tanks)
or
____have or history of severe allergies becomes: _____ present allergies that may cause sinus or lung congestion prior to diving and can only be relieved with medication.

I know such a list may not work for every item and would be lengthy. But it may allow the student to honestly answer NO. I did check YES on hernia 12 years ago, and got a Dr. note. But the operation was in 1990 and I have had no problems with heavy objects since.

Just another idea--with a probable down side.

 

[BRT]

Yes. Guess I figure if it's a big enough risk either for his liability or my well being I probably wouldn't want to take the risk anyway. But good point.

I'm willing to take my own risks but would never want to take liability for someone else to take the same risks.

 

[dmaziuk]

I was thinking that a possible way to resolve all issues may be to re-word the YES/NO list to make it relevant to diving.

It doesn't solve the two problems: it still asks for medical information that is none of your business, and I'm still not qualified to make an accurate assessment. (And besides, e.g. allergies don't go away, they can only get worse. If you have "history of allergies" then you have "present allergies".)

 

[Bob DBF]

Never mind.

 

[TMHeimer]

It doesn't solve the two problems: it still asks for medical information that is none of your business, and I'm still not qualified to make an accurate assessment. (And besides, e.g. allergies don't go away, they can only get worse. If you have "history of allergies" then you have "present allergies".)

Allergies don't go away???? Since I haven't sneezed ONCE or blown my nose (other than with a cold) since about 1990, after having the worst case of hay fever possible every summer 'til about that year and since childhood mean that they are just dormant for 27 years?

I'm not at all in disagreement about medical conditions being private (hey, you see on cop shows they can't just get your medical file from the doctor or hospital without a warrant), and your point about lay people not being totally qualified to answer some of the questions.

As some have pointed out, it's too bad all this fuss about forms/liabilities, etc. If you show up and die or have a big problem because of your medical situation, there should be no fault given to the instructor or dive op. Unless they did something wrong that would've also killed a healthy person. But that's not the world of today.

 

[dmaziuk]

Allergies don't go away???? Since I haven't sneezed ONCE or blown my nose (other than with a cold) since about 1990, after having the worst case of hay fever possible every summer 'til about that year and since childhood mean that they are just dormant for 27 years?

Huh. I learned something today: apparently 20% of children with peanut allergy will grow out of it. Seems I was wrong and one can outgrow some allergies. Good for you. In my case, I haven't had one since the 90s also, but only because I'm very careful around pets. Luckily, I'm OK with pollen unless I try to sleep in an hay loft or frolick in a hay stack, so I never needed medication to survive springtime.

 

[TMHeimer]

Huh. I learned something today: apparently 20% of children with peanut allergy will grow out of it. Seems I was wrong and one can outgrow some allergies. Good for you. In my case, I haven't had one since the 90s also, but only because I'm very careful around pets. Luckily, I'm OK with pollen unless I try to sleep in an hay loft or frolick in a hay stack, so I never needed medication to survive springtime.

Yeah I know it's weird. I guess people change. Back then the family dogs would drive me nuts in summer. Now I could stick my nose in one's fir in August and inhale with no effect, surrounded by ragweed. Really weird.

 

[admikar]

First: I really understand why shops are demanding these questionnaires. To keep them of the hook is SHTF.

I would imagine a pilots liscence requires a medical questionnaire or release

PPL and up, annually.
OTH, I am also obliged to take my diving medical every year (at least, I think I am).

.. at the time he took the class. Medical and mental fitness for everybody varies from day to day. That's why the anybody can thumb at any time recommendation. 100 doctors notes and good tests does not mean that if I have a bad sinus cold on dive day that I am fit to dive.

Rhis is my biggest grit with it. I passed my medical 5 days ago. If a hyperbaric doctor thinks I'm OK to dive, who am I to disagree. And how can I tell I developed a medical issue
between my medical and dive day?

They will have a hard time arguing that when you signed that you had no problems and in fact has a known heart problem or what ever it was that killed you. I still believe that the purpose of the medical form is to transfer liability to the diver, and I'm good with that.

Still, does not stop them from trying.

After all, would your Physician 'clear' you to smoke, maintain an obese state, drink alcohol, eat greasy fried food...? One argument levied against the 'It's my right' mindset is that exercising your self-perceived right could impact others (e.g.: dive guide rescue effort, cancel others trip short). Yes. So can having a heart attack or stroke driving down the highway.

You're talking about taking personal responsibility. There was a thread here about overweight divers. Some of us were flamed down for stating that same line of thought.
I really can not see a difference between I have a right to dive overweight (if you need a crane to get me out of water, tough on you) and I have a right to dive with some medical problem.

There's some logic here. The instructor should know he/she is fit to dive for their own sake. It's not really about how easy or hard it would be for the certified buddy to help. Besides, many people are not Rescue certified and don't know CPR.

Every diver from OW up should know the same.
CPR was included in my driving licence training, my OW and AOW.

 

[ERRN]

Interesting thread and some good points on both sides. just 2 thoughts to add. The dive shop has no process to inspect your gear for safety which is much more likely to be a cause of concern than a family hx of HNT, in my opinion. They trust you to ensure your regs and bc are working well, no stuck valves, clogged screens in first stage etc, detuned regs or faulty SPG, so the argument that they are looking out for your safety based on the medical forms seems a bit hollow. If I were in the dive shops shoes I would make the same decision to refuse yes without physician note, but does seem like a liability issue as opposed to a "we care" issue.

Another point and this is coming from someone in the medical field... Them knowing I have, as a hypothetical example COPD, doesn't help me or them. it's not like they will administer duoneb treatments, place me on BIPAP or give me solumedrol, same with CHF, HTN, Angina, Stroke etc. They literally don't have the skills, equipment or medications to make a significant difference if I suffer an acute attack or exacerbate a chronic condition. And while I could maybe see the point that they can relay that information to the paramedics it wouldn't really affect EMS treatment since it is based on EMS provider's assessment anyway, they would never start treating an alleged condition without supporting physical assessment findings.

 

[boulderjohn]

The dive shop has no process to inspect your gear for safety which is much more likely to be a cause of concern than a family hx of HNT, in my opinion.

I am not sure of the exact context of your comment, but medical statements are usually only required for instruction. During instruction, the instructor will be very much aware of problems in equipment. In fact, just a couple of days ago I had to scrub a student's final certification dive because we were not able to fix a problem in his gear that I thought made the dive unsafe.

As far as regular diving goes, if you read the DAN fatality reports, you will see that over the years about 40% of fatalities are related to the diver's health. You will almost never see a fatality related to equipment issues. I used the word "almost" as a fudge--I don't remember ever seeing one.