That pesky Medical Statement

[JohnN]

If I didn't believe in Hanlon's Razor, I'd be tempted to think the questionnaire was designed by an intelligent insurance lawyer for the purpose of catching me lying. So they could weasel out of paying. That's their job, and the purpose of the series of overly broad, deliberately vague, and in some cases clearly misplaced questions, is to provide their company with ample wiggle room.

Put me in a room full of pets and I'll have a bronchitis attack every time. Haven't had one in decades. Does it mean I need to answer 'yes' to the COPD question? Bah.

I had to look it up:

Hanlon's razor is an aphorism expressed in various ways including "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

Hanlon's razor - Wikipedia

 

[boulderjohn]

I am an adult. I am responsible for myself. I make my own decisions. I have to live with the consequences.

Okay, you feel that way. Fine.

If you die while training do to a medical condition that should have kept you out of the water, will your surviving family members feel that way? Or might they argue in the lawsuit that the instructor should have known you were not fit to dive?

 

[dmaziuk]

Okay, you feel that way. Fine.

If you die while training do to a medical condition that should have kept you out of the water, will your surviving family members feel that way? Or might they argue in the lawsuit that the instructor should have known you were not fit to dive?

PADI Waiver - Scuba Dive Costa Rica With Rocket Frog Divers

 

[boulderjohn]

PADI Waiver - Scuba Dive Costa Rica With Rocket Frog Divers

Ah, I misunderstood your post--I thought you were opposed to ALL medical statements.

 

[Blue Quaker]

When I started diving in the 70s with BSAC in the UK a diving medical and recent chest x ray were required in order to start your training. Once you were a member of a branch and diving with your local club, you were required to get subsequent medicals every 5 years till age 30; every 3 years till age 40 and an annual medical each year post 40 years of age. There were no insurance liability policies for instructors then and the point of the medical was to let each individual know that they were healthy enough to dive safely, without medical risk. The club I was in till I came to Canada in1982 had over 100 members who all followed the rules without thinking much about it, because it was a way to keep "the odds" stacked in your favor... no medical contraindications = safe to continue diving. The "mindset" now seems to have swung due to the increased litigation and influence of liability insurance companies to view the medical sign off as something onerous that is required, rather than "is it medically safe for me to dive"....just a thought

 

[boulderjohn]

A legal issue that the RSTC medical form may be dealing with is the idea of informed consent. I investigated the case of a dive fatality in which the expert witness hired by the plaintiff, a person who serves as an expert witness in a lot of scuba-related lawsuits, argued that the liability waiver the deceased had signed had no value. He said people routinely sign them without reading them or (if they do) understanding them. Unless the instructor could prove that he had gone over each item, explained it in detail, etc., it was not valid. IN fact, he said it would not be valid of the deceased had not consulted with an attorney before signing it.

As an instructor, I have read a number of warnings stating that I should go over every clause in a liability waiver before the student signs.

I suspect that the same could be argued in the case of someone who signs a simple statement saying they have no medical issues; how do you know you have no medical issues if you do not know what those issues are?

 

[jerrwhy01]

For you diving professionals I have a question regarding this issue:

Are you as a diving professional are you prepared to release your medical history and current medical condition to your prospective students/customers and discuss those issues with them so that they can make an informed decision regarding your services?

 

[BRT]

Okay, you feel that way. Fine.

If you die while training do to a medical condition that should have kept you out of the water, will your surviving family members feel that way? Or might they argue in the lawsuit that the instructor should have known you were not fit to dive?

They will have a hard time arguing that when you signed that you had no problems and in fact has a known heart problem or what ever it was that killed you. I still believe that the purpose of the medical form is to transfer liability to the diver, and I'm good with that.

 

[BRT]

When I started diving in the 70s with BSAC in the UK a diving medical and recent chest x ray were required in order to start your training. Once you were a member of a branch and diving with your local club, you were required to get subsequent medicals every 5 years till age 30; every 3 years till age 40 and an annual medical each year post 40 years of age. There were no insurance liability policies for instructors then and the point of the medical was to let each individual know that they were healthy enough to dive safely, without medical risk. The club I was in till I came to Canada in1982 had over 100 members who all followed the rules without thinking much about it, because it was a way to keep "the odds" stacked in your favor... no medical contraindications = safe to continue diving. The "mindset" now seems to have swung due to the increased litigation and influence of liability insurance companies to view the medical sign off as something onerous that is required, rather than "is it medically safe for me to dive"....just a thought

Get on a dive boat in Cozumel and look at the customers. Pull in to Sund Rock on a Saturday and look at the divers. Try to guess how many of them do not have some condition that would create a question of whether they should be diving. We are a bunch of geezers and we are all paying the medical industry to keep us going. Sure there are a few exceptions, but they are a minority. Many if not most did not start diving until they were over 40. I was young when I started, only 30. We want to do what we want to do and we know there are risks. Staying in bed or taking up golf is not going to keep us alive.

 

[TMHeimer]

For you diving professionals I have a question regarding this issue:

Are you as a diving professional are you prepared to release your medical history and current medical condition to your prospective students/customers and discuss those issues with them so that they can make an informed decision regarding your services?

Simple answer is the dive pro had to at one point fill out the same medical form for courses he/she took, even if just the OW course. So the pro would have to be medically fit according to the shop and agency (and have gotten a Dr.'s signed approval if there was a YES answer). No detailed medical info. would need to be released to anyone.
Now, if the thought is the dive pro should have to renew the medical form (and dive skills) periodically (as the pro is responsible for other people), that is a different thread.