Tesla home battery pack and DPV battery pack Technology

[Wookie]

I was referring to Mr. Musk and his battery packs (as were you in your reference to Kalifornia math). Of course it doesn't make any sense for low volume "specialty" products, my guess is that the high kWh battery business is going to prove very lucrative. And I'll beg for forgiveness for using price one to refer to what you sell it for, and also for the COGS.

Sorry, I was wrapped up in the rest of the thread and didn't get the reference. Yes, Mr. Musk would like to sell a million of these battery packs then figure out how much they cost him to make, and adjust from there. I also believe that batteries are the next big thing, but we do not yet have the technology. I guess someone needs to come up with the "spam-16 penny nail" battery, made from materials that are easily accessible, and don't burn in airplanes.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Keep poking the Tobin bear. It's really great fun. And I'm not sure what Wookie's problem is with Tobin's politics. He's only slightly right of the Kaiser.

I'm a freedom loving, small government, constitutionalist. I recognize that puts me at odds with Wookie....


Tobin

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Hey here's a thought.
If you don't like the price of batteries then go somewhere else or make your own or quit using a scooter.
I really don't think Tobin owes anybody an explanation about any pricing, or does he need to argue with some cheapskate on the internet about how he justifies cost, that's nobody's business.
If you don't like the price of dive gear then pick another hobby.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Ya gotta love activity specific "social media"

OP asks a question.

An expert in the field, someone who actually developed the first commercial Lithium-Ion replacement battery for recreational scooters, provides a genuine answer.

OP doesn't like the answer, it didn't fit his premise.

OP first reaction is to question the integrity of the expert.

OP then tries to "out" the expert by playing online CSI.

OP ignores genuine answers and *DEMANDS* answers that fit his premise.

Small wonder the world is leaving forums. It's a sewer.

Tobin

 

[eelnoraa]

This is so true. It is a free country and free economic. If you don't like the price, you don't buy. No reason to challenger other for how they set their price. Just because you can't afford a BMW, you can't force BMW to sell you a car at Honda price.

Back to small scale battery pack production, I have once made myself a Li-On pack for my canister light. Between sourcing the right cells, the right protection circuit, the appropriate PCB, the right charger, I spent about 80% of what a new battery from batterystation. Adding other misc material and tools needed, and the time I spend for researching, putting the cells together, testing, I would say I ended up spend more. It was a fun project. The point is small scale production is actually very expansive per unit.

Hey here's a thought.
If you don't like the price of batteries then go somewhere else or make your own or quit using a scooter.
I really don't think Tobin owes anybody an explanation about any pricing, or does he need to argue with some cheapskate on the internet about how he justifies cost, that's nobody's business.
If you don't like the price of dive gear then pick another hobby.

 

[swansoncp]

 

[cool_hardware52]

BTW, exactly *what* cells does anyone expect to find in Tesla's "Power Wall"?

The latest and greatest Gigafactory cells with the highest energy density?

Not too likely. High energy density (watthours / pound) is valued for things that er, ah, well *move* like Auto's and Scooters. Lighter weight is a huge advantage if you need it to move.

Heavy things that don't move, like your *house* don't really need high specific energy batteries. It makes no difference if your 10 KWH pack weighs 150 lbs vs 100 lbs. It's bolted to the wall.

The history of every battery type is rapid increases in cell capacity in the first few years and slower increases after and then a very little increase in capacity.

When new "better" cells are introduced yesterday's cells become relatively cheaper.

In addition even in the same production run not all cells perform the same. Cells are graded. Those with the highest capacity are sold at the highest price, a bit less capacity, a little cheaper etc.

I suspect that the "Tesla Power Wall" is an effort to establish a ready market for 3rd and 4th tier cells, i.e. those that failed to "make the grade" for EV use.

If this is the case the new "cheaper" Power Wall cells are exactly what you won't want to use for a DVP……...

There are already test applications where "tired" EV packs are being used for fixed position (think industrial "power wall") energy storage.


Tobin

 

[ams511]

I suspect that the "Tesla Power Wall" is an effort to establish a ready market for 3rd and 4th tier cells, i.e. those that failed to "make the grade" for EV use.

Do you think there will be a long-term market for lower tier cells or will advances in production technology reduce the reject rate? When Intel changes production processes the chip yields tend to increase over time. I read the same thing happened with flat panel displays. The reject rate used to be very high but has dropped down to acceptable levels. It will be interesting to see where this technology leads.

 

[KaizerWilhelm]

I'm a freedom loving, small government, constitutionalist. I recognize that puts me at odds with Wookie....


Tobin

I'm just curious why I got thrown into the mix...

 

[cool_hardware52]

I'm just curious why I got thrown into the mix...

I'm lost, how and when did you get thrown anywhere?

Is your nickname "Wookie"?

Tobin