Ten Foot/3 Metre Stops in Heavy Swells?

[vshearer]

Thank you vshearer .. it was rough to read that and imagine what you must have gone through.

I did not know either of the individuals personally. It seems that the story is pertinent, however, and worth keeping in mind.. While no definitive cause was ever attributed, it seems very likely it might have been an embolism caused by the rapid variation in depth during the stop.

Note I posted it was a post from TDS. If you have an account you will find in the Accidents section there. Just do a search on Denton.

By the way, this is a site he set up shortly before he passed.

http://pontificatingnobody.com/Denton-FillStation/

 

[Rhone Man]

Not to hijack the thread, but this reminds me of an old war story I read online about diving on the Andrea Doria when a particularly bad New England storm blew in. The captain kept winching out more and more line, and the seas just got worse and worse, but he had divers down doing deco so he had to stay fast.

Eventually the waves became so huge, that when they peaked before the bow of the boat, and the boat was in the trough, the divers holding on to the line for deco were higher than the level of the deck (with extremely alarmed looks on their faces).

Might all just be an old captain's tale, but the mental image of tec divers fully rigged out in the window of the wave holding on to an anchor line that went down to the boat stays in my head.

 

[Gilldiver]

I would have thought a jon line would help, but I guess attatching it is the problem, your going to be jerked up/down even more while attaching it ..... would having hook in one hand and switching to the other to install it, be too risky of being swept away if missed hooking it?

What I will do, and have done many times, is to anticipate the conditions higher up the line. If I think there will be significant current and/or swell/chop that will make a controlled hang on the line difficult, I will put a John line on the anchor line on the bottom.

My John Lines are 6' long with an eye splice at each end. To attach it, I just loop the body of the line through the one eye. As I go up the line everything is loose and I can remove the John Line from the anchor line with a quick pull on the wrapped eye. Or I can immediately tighten the John line by pulling on the body of the line or the other eye.

Try it, it works.

I do have to caution everyone about the amount of anchor scope that is out. If there is a significant amount out, the angle of the anchor line may be such that no John Line will grab enough to keep from slowly sliding up. So, you have to watch to see if it is. As with any tool there are limitations and you have to know them.

The other thing is to make sure that you can get off the line quickly if need be. The only times I have ever have to do so was when someone sent a lift bag up the anchor line, but you can feel the bag coming up as a vibration on the line.

Drift Deco is great, if you have a free boat and everyone on the dive is a tight unit and doing the same profiles at the same time and this has all been worked out with the boat captain. But, for the most part that will not happen with a mixed boat you would end up with divers spread out down current. Add some fog or chop that makes it hard for the boat to see a bag and you might get real lonely.

Last, how many divers actually have their own scooters and can scooter a deco?

 

[nadwidny]

OK. Now, has everyone in the "I'm not DIR but ..." crowd had their say? Could we now get back to getting this thread to somewhat resemble the theme of the forum it's posted in?

This is getting almost as bad as the DIR forum on TDS.

 

[battles2a5]

OK. Now, has everyone in the "I'm not DIR but ..." crowd had their say? Could we now get back to getting this thread to somewhat resemble the theme of the forum it's posted in?

This is getting almost as bad as the DIR forum on TDS.

Actually, the purpose of this forum (as stated in the description) is to LEARN about DIR. Some of us actually look for ways to improve our diving and are open to introducing new techniques. So if there is a real reason why jon lines should not be used other than for appearances, it sounds like there are a lot of people here who are interested in the discussion. However, since your only answer to fair questions seems to be insults and you are apparently ill-equipped to debate the reasoning behind your position I would like to direct you to the DIR Practitioners Zone. THAT is the forum dedicated to DIR, by DIR, and for DIR, which is apparently what you are looking for.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

OK. Now, has everyone in the "I'm not DIR but ..." crowd had their say? Could we now get back to getting this thread to somewhat resemble the theme of the forum it's posted in?.

Picking through the responses to my original question, I get that in heavy swells or waves good DIR practice would be to consolidate the shallow stop(s) below the swells. I do not do deco diving, so gas switching is not a consideration, but one person suggested that under such circumstances it is wise to take something like EAN80 instead of EAN100 so that a less shallow stop is an option.

Then the thread seemed to veer into the question of heavy drift. This IS a consideration for me. Although I do not do deco diving, I enjoy the Thousand Islands, where every dive is a drift dive, and if you lose track of your location you can find yourself getting a real close look at the props of a freighter that hasn't sunk yet

On some of those boat dives we drift our ascent and the boat picks us up. On others, the protocol calls for staying with the mooring line. I will ask about the DIR protocol for this in another thread.

Have I missed anything on the subject of no-deco diving in DIR style when there are heavy swells?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Yes, well, we have listened to the local non DIR divers in the very north Atlantic (Nova Scotia) who told us that our DIR methods would not work on their wrecks. We heard the non-DIRs tell us on the West Coast of Canada that our DIR methods wouldn't work in the current swept waters there. We heard from the non DIR divers that our methods wouldn't work in sub-zero temperatures under the ice. We consistently hear from non DIR divers that no matter what we are doing, DIR won't work. Guess what? They are wrong. For the non-DIR types to constantly tell us that what we are doing won't work since DIR is cave-based is ludicrous since we continually prove them wrong again, and again, and again in different environments all over the globe.

I've laid out the adaptations we use for different situations and in different environments and yet people continue to tell us that what we do won't work. Bizarre.

It is not a DIR works or does not work argument, it is about DIR divers having the brains and open mindedness to adapt as needed for specific conditions to remain optimally configured for the dive.

If I can easily manage deco when diving off shore in rough seas with a Jon Line why would I opt to use a scooter - that I may not have had along on the dive anyway? And a Jon line is a lot easier to bring aboard in high seas than a 50 lb scooter.

A spool will work for a Jon line substitute, but if the odds are high that you will need a "jon line" of some sort, why not bring one along to start with?

It is true that neccesity is the mother of invention and that you could press a spool or primary reel into use in all sorts of situations. But what if in the course of a dive in high seas and strong current you get back to the point where the anchor was tied in and find the anchor and line gone? Would you rather have a very DIR spool or primary reel or a very non DIR jersey upline? The lighter cave or wreck line might work but I'd prefer not to bet my life on it or at best risk drifting for several hours at sea hoping the boat finds me if the line broke.

 

[Rhone Man]

Originally Posted by Dirkadiver
For starters, I'm not DIR.

Then go away. Nobody here cares what you think you know.

Ever the populists...

 

[rjack321]

So it is my fault for not doing drift deco on an anchored dive? Interesting. I'm not sure how much diving you have done on the east coast but EVERYONE here anchors, Florida being the exception. So you would need to explain this path of errors to all of the boat captains.

And why scooter? What's the "problem" with a jon line? If you plan a dive w/ a 20min BT, 90min RT, are you going to bring a back-up scooter to get you through deco?

"Everyone" does not anchor. You need to work with (educate) a skipper with a smaller boat of people who know what they are doing to develop a better system. A fairly large portion of the skippers out there just do stuff they way they've done it for eons. It may or may not even work well for them. The good open minded skippers are willing to work with the good divers to have a seamless system that works for both.

As mentioned, Jon lines jerk often you around.

 

[rjack321]

Picking through the responses to my original question, I get that in heavy swells or waves good DIR practice would be to consolidate the shallow stop(s) below the swells. I do not do deco diving, so gas switching is not a consideration, but one person suggested that under such circumstances it is wise to take something like EAN80 instead of EAN100 so that a less shallow stop is an option.

Have I missed anything on the subject of no-deco diving in DIR style when there are heavy swells?

If the swell is that bad you should not have left the dock.