Beiji
Contributor
Here's another article from a few days ago: Deputies say cause of fatal Skaneateles Lake scuba accident could take months to determine | syracuse.com
Teen fatality - Skaneateles Lake, New York
- Thread starter DandyDon
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
RochesterUE
Registered
My name is Teddy Garlock, and I was one of the divers with Brandon when the accident occurred. I value these threads and have gained knowledge from the lessons we have learned from other events, so addressing the accident on here has been on my mind since the accident happened. I have received permission from the family to discuss the event on here, and in the coming days I will be posting a report on what happened.
In the meantime, I would really appreciate it if our community here would join together to support Brandon's mother, Sharon Finch. Brandon and Sharon were certified together, and enjoyed spending time together underwater. Brandon was using Sharon's equipment when the accident occurred, so unfortunately this is preventing her intentions to continue diving. I have put together a fundraiser to try and purchase Sharon some new gear, so that she can make some new memories with the sport that we all enjoy so much. Please consider helping by making a donation. Thank you, Teddy
Brandon Finch - Memorial Diving Fund | Indiegogo
In the meantime, I would really appreciate it if our community here would join together to support Brandon's mother, Sharon Finch. Brandon and Sharon were certified together, and enjoyed spending time together underwater. Brandon was using Sharon's equipment when the accident occurred, so unfortunately this is preventing her intentions to continue diving. I have put together a fundraiser to try and purchase Sharon some new gear, so that she can make some new memories with the sport that we all enjoy so much. Please consider helping by making a donation. Thank you, Teddy
Brandon Finch - Memorial Diving Fund | Indiegogo
Beiji
Contributor
Teddy, thanks for identifying yourself as one of Brandon's buddies, and please do post a report of the accident when you can.
RochesterUE
Registered
I’ve been waiting to post any specific details on here, now that I have had a chance to discuss with the family I have been given the go-ahead to answer your questions about what happened. My name is Teddy Garlock, and I was one of the divers in the water when Brandon was diving that day. Here is a brief overview of the events on October 20th:
Experience Level of divers:
Brandon Finch – Certified Open Water diver, 9 dives this season (his first season, he was certified in July of 2013).
Carl Hoyt – Certified Advanced Open Water diver, Recreational Nitrox, 30-40 dives in last 12 months, 250+total. Certified for 12 years. Currently taking Public Safety Diver course. Member of local public safety diving team. Paramedic/RN.
Teddy Garlock – Certified Open Water diver, Drysuit, Recreational Nitrox, TDI Advanced Nitrox, 80 dives in last 12 months, 101 total. Certified for 10 years. Currently taking Public Safety Diver course. Member of local public safety diving team. Paramedic.
We arrived at the south end of Skaneateles Lake to do a fun-dive following a meeting of our dive team. This was NOT a training dive, and although Carl and I met through the dive team, this was NOT a dive team dive. We suited up and carried equipment to the dock. Carl checked Brandon’s equipment, and Brandon noted he had 2800psi in his aluminum 80. Brandon and Carl were diving wetsuits, I was in a drysuit. Water temperature was 59 degrees. Carl and Brandon had hoods and gloves. We entered the water and discussed emergency signals with Brandon. For a new diver, I was impressed at how quickly he was able to answer correctly about what to do in an OOA emergency, be it himself or one of us experiencing an issue. Brandon teased me about wearing a drysuit, and with that we entered the water. We had pre-planned a direction of travel and a dive plan. Brandon was certified to 60 feet, and had done some other dives around this depth. We swam close to each other, as I took pictures and a video of Carl and Brandon together. I stowed my camera and got in between Brandon and Carl. Carl was ~5 feet to my right, and Brandon was ~5 feet to my left. Visibility that day was around 30 feet. At this point we were only 4-5 minutes into the dive, and in 60 feet of water. I looked to my left to check on Brandon, and saw his mask sinking to the bottom. Behind the mask I saw Brandon swimming to the surface, he appeared to be swimming very quickly. I had only been ~5 feet from him and had been visually checking in with him every minute or so. I made the decision to not chase after Brandon, who was already very quickly surfacing, and instead got Carl’s attention and signaled to make a controlled ascent to find out what caused Brandon to surface. I got Carl’s attention and Carl and I began our ascent. It did not take me very long to get Carl’s attention, but by then Brandon had gone up far and fast enough to be out of our range of vision. As Carl and I were ascending we saw Brandon again, sinking to the bottom, unresponsive. We both immediately swam to him, and caught him as he hit the bottom (63 feet). His regulator was not in his mouth, and he was unresponsive. Carl and I grabbed onto him, and Carl put a regulator in his mouth. We swam Brandon up together, albeit very quickly. We were at the surface in a very short period of time. When we reached the surface Brandon was still breathing, but remained unresponsive. I yelled to two bystanders on shore to call 911, and they did. We were approximately 200 feet off shore at this point. We did a tired-diver tow with Brandon, and it took us a few minutes to reach the shore. We got out of our gear and removed Brandon from his. We pulled him up onto the dock, and I performed a quick assessment. Brandon was no longer breathing, and had lost a pulse. We started CPR. The fire dept and ambulance came. Being a Paramedic, I rode in the ambulance to the hospital and assisted the crew in their efforts. I contacted the DAN emergency hotline and spoke with the on call physician. He said that until we had return of circulation, there weren’t any dive-specific things we needed to worry about during the attempts at resuscitation.
So far the investigation has not yielded any “smoking guns” as to a cause. All of the equipment was inspected and found to be functional. We will not know the autopsy results for several months, due to the amount of time toxicology studies take.
There are many questions that are left unanswered. What caused Brandon to panic and bolt to the surface? Did his mask come off and cause him to panic, or did his mask come off as a result of panicking? Why, if I was within 5 feet of him, didn’t come to me for assistance? Did he attempt to? Several on here have made reference to this being a “trust me” dive. This was NOT a “trust me” dive. This was a dive with a conservative plan that was within everyone’s certification and experience level.
Since in my opinion there were no “smoking gun” errors or causes, it is hard for me to draw many conclusions from this accident. I would take this accident as a reminder to all divers that our sport is dangerous, and that things happen. Always remember to check your equipment as well as your buddy’s. Remember to go through safety drills, and know the limits and experience levels of all divers in the water (all of which we did).
I would be happy to answer any questions you have, feel free to post here or PM me. Thank you
Experience Level of divers:
Brandon Finch – Certified Open Water diver, 9 dives this season (his first season, he was certified in July of 2013).
Carl Hoyt – Certified Advanced Open Water diver, Recreational Nitrox, 30-40 dives in last 12 months, 250+total. Certified for 12 years. Currently taking Public Safety Diver course. Member of local public safety diving team. Paramedic/RN.
Teddy Garlock – Certified Open Water diver, Drysuit, Recreational Nitrox, TDI Advanced Nitrox, 80 dives in last 12 months, 101 total. Certified for 10 years. Currently taking Public Safety Diver course. Member of local public safety diving team. Paramedic.
We arrived at the south end of Skaneateles Lake to do a fun-dive following a meeting of our dive team. This was NOT a training dive, and although Carl and I met through the dive team, this was NOT a dive team dive. We suited up and carried equipment to the dock. Carl checked Brandon’s equipment, and Brandon noted he had 2800psi in his aluminum 80. Brandon and Carl were diving wetsuits, I was in a drysuit. Water temperature was 59 degrees. Carl and Brandon had hoods and gloves. We entered the water and discussed emergency signals with Brandon. For a new diver, I was impressed at how quickly he was able to answer correctly about what to do in an OOA emergency, be it himself or one of us experiencing an issue. Brandon teased me about wearing a drysuit, and with that we entered the water. We had pre-planned a direction of travel and a dive plan. Brandon was certified to 60 feet, and had done some other dives around this depth. We swam close to each other, as I took pictures and a video of Carl and Brandon together. I stowed my camera and got in between Brandon and Carl. Carl was ~5 feet to my right, and Brandon was ~5 feet to my left. Visibility that day was around 30 feet. At this point we were only 4-5 minutes into the dive, and in 60 feet of water. I looked to my left to check on Brandon, and saw his mask sinking to the bottom. Behind the mask I saw Brandon swimming to the surface, he appeared to be swimming very quickly. I had only been ~5 feet from him and had been visually checking in with him every minute or so. I made the decision to not chase after Brandon, who was already very quickly surfacing, and instead got Carl’s attention and signaled to make a controlled ascent to find out what caused Brandon to surface. I got Carl’s attention and Carl and I began our ascent. It did not take me very long to get Carl’s attention, but by then Brandon had gone up far and fast enough to be out of our range of vision. As Carl and I were ascending we saw Brandon again, sinking to the bottom, unresponsive. We both immediately swam to him, and caught him as he hit the bottom (63 feet). His regulator was not in his mouth, and he was unresponsive. Carl and I grabbed onto him, and Carl put a regulator in his mouth. We swam Brandon up together, albeit very quickly. We were at the surface in a very short period of time. When we reached the surface Brandon was still breathing, but remained unresponsive. I yelled to two bystanders on shore to call 911, and they did. We were approximately 200 feet off shore at this point. We did a tired-diver tow with Brandon, and it took us a few minutes to reach the shore. We got out of our gear and removed Brandon from his. We pulled him up onto the dock, and I performed a quick assessment. Brandon was no longer breathing, and had lost a pulse. We started CPR. The fire dept and ambulance came. Being a Paramedic, I rode in the ambulance to the hospital and assisted the crew in their efforts. I contacted the DAN emergency hotline and spoke with the on call physician. He said that until we had return of circulation, there weren’t any dive-specific things we needed to worry about during the attempts at resuscitation.
So far the investigation has not yielded any “smoking guns” as to a cause. All of the equipment was inspected and found to be functional. We will not know the autopsy results for several months, due to the amount of time toxicology studies take.
There are many questions that are left unanswered. What caused Brandon to panic and bolt to the surface? Did his mask come off and cause him to panic, or did his mask come off as a result of panicking? Why, if I was within 5 feet of him, didn’t come to me for assistance? Did he attempt to? Several on here have made reference to this being a “trust me” dive. This was NOT a “trust me” dive. This was a dive with a conservative plan that was within everyone’s certification and experience level.
Since in my opinion there were no “smoking gun” errors or causes, it is hard for me to draw many conclusions from this accident. I would take this accident as a reminder to all divers that our sport is dangerous, and that things happen. Always remember to check your equipment as well as your buddy’s. Remember to go through safety drills, and know the limits and experience levels of all divers in the water (all of which we did).
I would be happy to answer any questions you have, feel free to post here or PM me. Thank you
- Messages
- 2,739
- Reaction score
- 769
- # of dives
- 500 - 999
Thanks for the details. One of the things about new divers that I'd like to note is that thermoclines can be very alarming, especially the first time or two they are experienced. Some new divers will even panic when hitting a thermocline. I remember not panicking but being very uncomfortable the first couple of times I hit the cold,dark thermocline in my new local lake and I had quite a few dives at that point. I had recently moved and had a lake instead of the Sound as my new local mud hole. The Puget Sound might be cold and murky but there isn't really a thermocline. The lake I was diving in was 80 degrees on top of the thermocline and 50 below, very clear on top and dark, with so much particulate that it required a very good light to penetrate. I probably had about 75-100 dives at that point and I was not happy with that thermocline.
Teddy, thank you so much for posting details of the accident. That must have been very hard to write.
I can't imagine how painful it was to write that, but thank you so much, Mr. Garland.
Whether he lost his mask in panic, or panicked because he lost it (which sounds more likely), panic and embolism sound very likely to be the causes of the fatality. I don't know how you ever absolutely prevent this from happening, but as a DM with an instructor husband, I know I will talk to Peter about this accident and see how, in our OW classes, we can do more "panic-proofing".
Whether he lost his mask in panic, or panicked because he lost it (which sounds more likely), panic and embolism sound very likely to be the causes of the fatality. I don't know how you ever absolutely prevent this from happening, but as a DM with an instructor husband, I know I will talk to Peter about this accident and see how, in our OW classes, we can do more "panic-proofing".
- Messages
- 2,739
- Reaction score
- 769
- # of dives
- 500 - 999
It sounds like an excellent lake for new divers, so long as they watch their depth. Are you implying this isn't a good place for new divers to dive?
As a brand new diver, I shore dived the Puget Sound and dealt with planning around currents and tides. Temps were 45 degrees and vis was often quite poor. I felt it was a great place to learn. Lake diving is also great for learning. Heck, there's plenty of new divers doing shore entries in Southern and Northern CA, dealing with surf entries, 55 degree waters, low vis, currents, surge. But, the important thing is that when you are a new diver you get out and dive as soon as your class is done to retain the skills that you learned. Don't wait 9 months for a trip to the Caribbean. After graduating from OW, a diver should be able to plan and execute a dive in water similar to what they were trained in. Without a DM holding their hand.
Thank you so much for the details, Teddy. It is rare that we have so much information available. It must have been a terrible experience then, and I am sure it still feels terrible now. I agree that we will probably never know the reason for the surprise ascent.
flots am
Contributor
- Messages
- 3,226
- Reaction score
- 1,861
- # of dives
- I just don't log dives
It really doesn't get deep all that fast. If you look at the lines on the map and the scale, you'll see that it's nearly a mile wide even at the narrow point and that crossing the over all the depth gradients would take hundreds of feet of travel.
It's relatively easy to get deep, but the slope is unmistakable and easy to avoid, it's not something you would have a problem with accidentally.
It's extremely cold below the lower thermocline (mid 30's to low 40's generally) and not and not someplace I'd be in a wetsuit.
flots.
RochesterUE
Registered
This part of the lake we were in has a very gradual slope. Further north (around Sevey's Marina) it is incredibly steep.
I dive Skaneateles often. The thermocline that day was probably about 70-80 feet, we never hit it. At 60 feet it was still 59 degrees according to my computer/ face. Previous posts are correct though, the "big" thermocline in Skaneateles is harsh when you are deep enough to hit it. I was diving north of here a few days before, and the thermocline was around 80 feet if I remember correctly.
In my experience and opinion, Skaneateles lake is great for beginners. Visibility is the best in the area, no real currents, not a lot of boat traffic, and a gentle slope to the depths from most areas.
I dive Skaneateles often. The thermocline that day was probably about 70-80 feet, we never hit it. At 60 feet it was still 59 degrees according to my computer/ face. Previous posts are correct though, the "big" thermocline in Skaneateles is harsh when you are deep enough to hit it. I was diving north of here a few days before, and the thermocline was around 80 feet if I remember correctly.
In my experience and opinion, Skaneateles lake is great for beginners. Visibility is the best in the area, no real currents, not a lot of boat traffic, and a gentle slope to the depths from most areas.
Similar threads
- Locked
