Teen diver dead - Catalina Island, California

[mdb]

????? Where is first diver

Enough said

I wondered the same; Where was "an instructor with credentials" who: "entered the water as a team".

A tragedy all around.

 

[boulderjohn]

So let me get this straight. Tell me if I have things right.

A three dive team including an instructor, another adult without good experience, and a 15 year old boy entered the water for their third dive of the day. They dived to more than 100 feet, after which the adult diver surfaced in distress. After a while, they thought about the 15 year old boy looked for him, and found him at 94 feet unresponsive but evidently still alive. He later died after attempts to revive.

The third diver, the instructor, is not mentioned again.

Is that an accurate summary of what we have been told?

 

[KevinNM]

That sounds about right, based on the data we have. Which raises a question with a pretty self-evident answer: is an instructor losing a teen diver who dies as a result of his abandoning him at 100 or so feet generally considered a bad thing by most agencies?

 

[drrich2]

Interesting case. Got a few questions, some of which may not be knowable yet.

1.) Was the 'Instructor' just a customer on the boat that day doing a recreational dive, or was he there in the capacity of an Instructor? A number of people in other threads on this forum have written of the practice of just providing an AOW cert. to qualify for boat dives, not Instructor, DM (or maybe even Rescue Diver?) in order to avoid liability exposure or getting expected to supervise/be responsible for other divers.

2.) Did the Instructor know this teen as underage? With a 15 year old it may sound like a goofball question, but some people look much younger than they are.

3.) Did the 'Instructor' know the experience of these two? When people on the forum speak of pre-dive discussion, I wonder how many ask detailed questions about # of prior dives & where they were? I suspect people often inquire to get a sense of whether a buddy will be competent; I wonder how many try to screen potential buddies so as to police them?

4.) When a 15 year old books with a dive boat, what extra paperwork/requirements are involved over an adult? Just a signed consent for him to dive? Does he have to bring an identified supervising adult? Does some adult have to go on record as 'responsible' for him?

5.) Have any of you ever been asked to buddy up with a minor you didn't know or have prior experience with?

6.) I have no knowledge of that dive op. It's my understanding that some boats in California aren't very paternalistic; no guide, don't dictate whether you can solo, basically don't try to police how you dive. It's something some divers admire about the region. How is that different when a minor is the customer?

Richard.

 

[DandyDon]

6.) I have no knowledge of that dive op. It's my understanding that some boats in California aren't very paternalistic; no guide, don't dictate whether you can solo, basically don't try to police how you dive. It's something some divers admire about the region. How is that different when a minor is the customer?

I only went on the boat once, many years ago - but I guess it's the same captain? We did a somewhat similar 3 day trip, with the last day ending in the same area as this accident west of the isthmus. I don't know much about the operator, but had no complaints. It is my understanding from that and a couple of other California trips that area operators never put a guide in the water. There is a briefing, gate times, and the DMs stay onboard, suited up, to rescue as needed.

Boat site: Great Escape Dive Charters

 

[drrich2]

I asked, not to imply any accusation against the dive op., but simply because the routine practice some of us have seen before is not how things are often done in California, and also because I don't know how the op.s manage it when a minor shows up as a customer. I'm curious about how this works, not just in California but elsewhere. Is it possible to get randomly buddied with a minor?

Richard.

 

[JohnN]

Looking at the Charter's web page, they say authorized to carry 49, they "only" carry 35.

Sorry but that is a cattle boat. No thanks

 

[DandyDon]

Looking at the Charter's web page, they say authorized to carry 49, they "only" carry 35.

Sorry but that is a cattle boat. No thanks

It is a large liveaboard. When I went on it, it had mostly bunks, and a few rooms. As far as diving, since there is no guide - buddy teams and solo divers spread out however they wanted, so nope - not a cattle boat.

For the rest of the weekend, I never felt it was crowded. Plenty of room to spread out. One salon table was out of commission, and some of the groups hogged some tables, so sitting down to eat late was a challenge - but I just took my plate outside and sit down as I recall.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I asked, not to imply any accusation against the dive op., but simply because the routine practice some of us have seen before is not how things are often done in California, and also because I don't know how the op.s manage it when a minor shows up as a customer. I'm curious about how this works, not just in California but elsewhere. Is it possible to get randomly buddied with a minor?

Richard.

The way it is in California is you check in, fill out a few forms when you board, one of them is a waiver basically saying that if you die it's not our fault, you write down your cert agency and number, and intial some stuff then sign.
Once at the dive site the DM will describe the site and which way is deep, which way is the reef, etc., then will ask if anybody needs a buddy. If a hand is raised they will ask if anybody would be willing to buddy up with person needing buddy, and so on. Solo is fine, vintage is fine, no BC is fine, breathing off a tank valve is fine, freediving is fine, you can basically do what you want how you want, the pool's open, please be back on board in an hour. Sometimes a mention of "be back on board with 500 PSI", but most of the time not.
No DM's in the water.
lunch will be ready when you get back, have a nice dive.
If you kill game please clean the fish cleaning station when you're done.
Thanks.
That's how it is in California.

A lot of people who are certified in California won't dive in California, they go to warm water. So I guess they figure that those that dive off California charter boats are mostly locals that are seasoned and don't like being babysat, so they don't babysit...I'm sure they'd rather not.
Which to me is a huge irony, because as you might know California leads the nation in nannyism in every corner of life. Somehow scuba charter boats have completely fallen off the radar making California dive boats the most lax operations in the world (which is why I'm in love with them).

The thing that really bothers me though, and it has nothing at all to do with the dive boats, but with the report of the boy running OOA.
We are having a discussion right now in another thread here on SB dealing precisely with this issue.

 

[diverrex]

I asked, not to imply any accusation against the dive op., but simply because the routine practice some of us have seen before is not how things are often done in California, and also because I don't know how the op.s manage it when a minor shows up as a customer. I'm curious about how this works, not just in California but elsewhere. Is it possible to get randomly buddied with a minor?

Richard.

I have been on the Great Escape many times, but not since February. The typical boat waiver in CA requires a parent or guardian to also sign when the diver is under 18. It is not common for people under 18 to be on the boats. The times I have seen it they were always diving with a parent. As Eric said boats don't actively buddy up divers, it's for divers to figure out for themselves. I often dive solo but will buddy up sometimes with someone I just met on the boat. No way would I buddy up with a minor though.

I'd say the typical boat in CA would pay extra attention to a minor diver and generally would require them to dive with a parent, guardian, instructor etc. I just don't see them allowing a minor to dive with an instabuddy.

The description of the three diver team, one being rescued, not knowing about the missing teen till roll call, the "instructor" not mentioned again, none of that makes any sense.

While SoCal boat don't dictate how we dive, ever since the "drifting Dan" incident several years ago they mostly enforce strict roll calls after every dive.

In the tropics I avoid cattle boats and generally only dive six packs. Here in California it's different though. Our boats are big. The Great Escape is 80 feet long. While it will take up to 36 it's also not unusual for it to have 25 or so divers. It doesn't feel crowded and since our dives aren't guided you can jump in, dive an hour and never see any other divers till maybe you get back near the boat, just as DandyDon said.