Wow that's not bad at all. Most classes I've taken do not include boat trips. So given that your op (rainbow reef) charges $80 for a boat ride, the class is really only $70.
Technical Diver Support Diver Certification
- Thread starter Capt Jim Wyatt
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
For those who have not experienced it, in different situations the skills of a support diver are not to be taken lightly. Today's dive was a piece of cake because of the absolutely beautiful conditions, but still our boat had a number of clusters of divers doing drifting deco. The support diver had to get to each cluster and confirm that each diver in that cluster was OK and did not need any O2 or other assistance. Everyone was fine today, but if everyone had not been fine, that diver would need the skills to deal with whatever those needs might be. As I said, the conditions were beautiful--the same task in rough seas would have been a real challenge.
lermontov
Contributor
given that this is aimed to aid a technical diver that has already achieved a reasonably high level of competency and self reliance to undertake accelerated deco or staged deco (In the context of support reqd dives) what skills would a " certified support diver" need over and above that of a non 'support certified' technical diver ( peer) all things being equal. In the above scenario, for the below mentioned reason-
If im going to undertake a big dive requiring that sort of support then I would have been in the game a long time and had considerable experience and a circle of divers I trust and had confidence in their problem solving/diving skill regsarless of if they had a cert to say they do
conduct the class for employees of dive shops who go out on charters for tech dives primarily. It is a customer service thing for our tec divers.
I can see the benefits in this situation an add on service to a tech charter - but also another cost passed on to the end user. I wonder the implications of liability for the supplier of this service - what exactly are you offering? increased safety? a safety net for ill- prepared tech divers ? Not sure of the rule of law fro USA does it change from an Instructional course(maximum responsibility) rather than a charter service (taxi ride)?
Fo your benefit John liken it to selling a guided ascent of everest, experience -yes, sherpas - yes, certification ?
I dont want to pull it down but I guess im struggling with the whole "lets invent a course" mentality, its such a narrow field I really wonder if its just another form of consumerism
OP
Capt Jim Wyatt
Hanging at the 10 Foot Stop
Staff member
ScubaBoard Business Sponsor
Scuba Instructor
None.
However, if you look at the training curriculum & prerequisites you may agree that the diver who takes this class will be better educated and better able to help divers prepare for dives as well as help divers in distress underwater during their ascent.
I can think of an event whereby had there been a support diver in the water a life *might* have been saved.
@lermontov you are correct to say that any certified diver can act in this role. I maintain that graduates of this class will be better at it.
This is for what you go after, for the ones that didn't understand yet.
OP
Capt Jim Wyatt
Hanging at the 10 Foot Stop
Staff member
ScubaBoard Business Sponsor
Scuba Instructor
Now that the Signal to Noise Ratio is somewhat under control I've more to talk about.
During open ocean tech dives, particularly here in the Keys and much of South Florida we conduct the decompression/ascent phase of the dive in current. Sometimes as much as several knots. Because of this we plan for a drifting decompression sometimes covering several miles of drift.
If we have anchored on the wreck for the dive we plan to have the divers trip the anchor at a pre-determined runtime. They can only do this if the boat comes ahead with her engines to take the force off of the anchor. This requires coordination between the divers and the boat crew. It is never unreasonable to have a predetermined/planned bottom time so this can be coordinated. After the tension is taken off of the anchor we then have the divers to foul the anchor upon itself and hang onto the anchor line for the drifting decompression, which can easily be 60 minutes or longer. I have used this method MANY times on the Wilkes-Barre down off Cudjoe Key -- NOTE: The Wilkes-Barre is NOT off Key West, it is directly offshore of Cudjoe Key MM 21.
If we choose to conduct a "Hot Drop" and NOT anchor the plan changes. The boat crew hot drops the divers and circles nearby until the agreed upon runtime is reached when the crew expects to see at least one lift bag/SMB come to the surface. The crew then follows the lift bag with the boat. The divers are expected to remain on the lift bag line, or very closeby - say within 10-15 feet of it. If two lift bags are shot they will be shot almost simultaneously and all divers will stay on or nearby the liftbags. As stated above we may drift several miles during the decompression phase.
Whenever the divers reach somewhere between 100 & 70 feet, as is determined by the pre-planned runtime, a support diver is sent into the water to meet the divers. This diver will be carrying a bottle of gas suitable for decompression at that depth. The support diver makes sure the 70 foot gas switch goes off as planned if an OC dive -OR- makes sure CCR divers are good to go with gas volumes & PO2 at those depths.
The support diver can either complete the rest of the stops with the team or return to the boat at that point, we decide ahead of time which will occur.
When the divers runtimes show the 20 foot stop & corresponding 100% O2 gas swith at 20 feet the support diver meets them again with a bottle of 100% in case anyone needs it. The support diver then can ferry the 70 foot gas back to the boat or remain with the divers under the same circumstances as described above.
When I owned Florida Keys Reef-Divers at Cudjoe Gardens Marina I developed this procedure with the help of several friends who worked with Billy Deans who basically pioneered trimix diving on the Wilkes-Barre. I still use this procedure while conducting deep dives here in Key Largo whether it be on the Northern Light or the Queen of Nassau.
The class prepares the support diver for these two sets of procedures, as well as the big picture of OC & CCR diving to these depths, and helps them fully understand the implications of a blown dive plan, a loss of deco gas etc and how to help deal with it from the surface.
During open ocean tech dives, particularly here in the Keys and much of South Florida we conduct the decompression/ascent phase of the dive in current. Sometimes as much as several knots. Because of this we plan for a drifting decompression sometimes covering several miles of drift.
If we have anchored on the wreck for the dive we plan to have the divers trip the anchor at a pre-determined runtime. They can only do this if the boat comes ahead with her engines to take the force off of the anchor. This requires coordination between the divers and the boat crew. It is never unreasonable to have a predetermined/planned bottom time so this can be coordinated. After the tension is taken off of the anchor we then have the divers to foul the anchor upon itself and hang onto the anchor line for the drifting decompression, which can easily be 60 minutes or longer. I have used this method MANY times on the Wilkes-Barre down off Cudjoe Key -- NOTE: The Wilkes-Barre is NOT off Key West, it is directly offshore of Cudjoe Key MM 21.
If we choose to conduct a "Hot Drop" and NOT anchor the plan changes. The boat crew hot drops the divers and circles nearby until the agreed upon runtime is reached when the crew expects to see at least one lift bag/SMB come to the surface. The crew then follows the lift bag with the boat. The divers are expected to remain on the lift bag line, or very closeby - say within 10-15 feet of it. If two lift bags are shot they will be shot almost simultaneously and all divers will stay on or nearby the liftbags. As stated above we may drift several miles during the decompression phase.
Whenever the divers reach somewhere between 100 & 70 feet, as is determined by the pre-planned runtime, a support diver is sent into the water to meet the divers. This diver will be carrying a bottle of gas suitable for decompression at that depth. The support diver makes sure the 70 foot gas switch goes off as planned if an OC dive -OR- makes sure CCR divers are good to go with gas volumes & PO2 at those depths.
The support diver can either complete the rest of the stops with the team or return to the boat at that point, we decide ahead of time which will occur.
When the divers runtimes show the 20 foot stop & corresponding 100% O2 gas swith at 20 feet the support diver meets them again with a bottle of 100% in case anyone needs it. The support diver then can ferry the 70 foot gas back to the boat or remain with the divers under the same circumstances as described above.
When I owned Florida Keys Reef-Divers at Cudjoe Gardens Marina I developed this procedure with the help of several friends who worked with Billy Deans who basically pioneered trimix diving on the Wilkes-Barre. I still use this procedure while conducting deep dives here in Key Largo whether it be on the Northern Light or the Queen of Nassau.
The class prepares the support diver for these two sets of procedures, as well as the big picture of OC & CCR diving to these depths, and helps them fully understand the implications of a blown dive plan, a loss of deco gas etc and how to help deal with it from the surface.
How much is expanded the knowledge on the CCR, is it for that particular point of the dive ?, is it for the CCR diver to switch to OP Deco bottles or how does the training go towards get the assistance to the CCR diver problem scenario ?
As you mention any diver can take this course and I believe it will be very valuable for any diver but more specially for the Rec diver, but at a point of a problem escalating I guess a line has to be draw of he ascending to not become part of the problem entering in to Deco obligations as well, how is your approach for this ?
As you mention any diver can take this course and I believe it will be very valuable for any diver but more specially for the Rec diver, but at a point of a problem escalating I guess a line has to be draw of he ascending to not become part of the problem entering in to Deco obligations as well, how is your approach for this ?
Last edited:
I see parallels of this course with respect to technical divers as rescue is to recreational divers.
Just to name one example, there are a lot of tech divers that do not know much about CCR, myself included. This course could include CCR rescue specific knowledge that I imagine would only normally be included in a CCR course. Its definitely not in any rescue course that I have heard of.
The support course could cover issues such as DSV operation and counterlung flooding and the sort currently being discussed on another forum.
Just to name one example, there are a lot of tech divers that do not know much about CCR, myself included. This course could include CCR rescue specific knowledge that I imagine would only normally be included in a CCR course. Its definitely not in any rescue course that I have heard of.
The support course could cover issues such as DSV operation and counterlung flooding and the sort currently being discussed on another forum.
Last edited:
OP
Capt Jim Wyatt
Hanging at the 10 Foot Stop
Staff member
ScubaBoard Business Sponsor
Scuba Instructor
And how to do a diluent flush.
Yes. Perhaps also something on non-normoxic issues. Not everyone is hypoxic trimix certified OC or CCR.
I was on a dive with two other people last month, one of whom was using a JJ. I told him up front that I didn't know anything about CCRs in case he had a problem. His response was if he didn't respond normally to a signal just take him to the surface. I felt uncomfortable in that I wasn't even sure that I would be able to do that. Fortunately, the other diver while not CCR qualified dove with him regularly.
The more I think about this, the more I think that this support course is a good idea for any tec diver and maybe even recreational dive masters.
I was on a dive with two other people last month, one of whom was using a JJ. I told him up front that I didn't know anything about CCRs in case he had a problem. His response was if he didn't respond normally to a signal just take him to the surface. I felt uncomfortable in that I wasn't even sure that I would be able to do that. Fortunately, the other diver while not CCR qualified dove with him regularly.
The more I think about this, the more I think that this support course is a good idea for any tec diver and maybe even recreational dive masters.
Last edited:
Similar threads
